Vaalingrade
Legend
While I'm happy for the people who are happy to have an official update to their setting... maybe not all settings should come back if they need to be so extensively overhauled to fit with modern sensibilities.
DLS4: Wild Elves has something to say about this claim.Drow don’t exist in Krynn.
DLS4: Wild Elves has something to say about this claim.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be a difference. I'm saying that the difference between Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms is really, really small.And here’s the modern problem. No, not every setting is the same and they absolutely should not be.
That's such a Forgotten Realms take, I don't mean that in a bad way! It's definitely more interesting than earlier approaches.According the lastest Drizzt books: In Faerun Lolth was good. The Drow acting evil corrupted her. Currently she's turned her back on it all and her demons secretly run things in her name. She still grants spells if a priestess asks but inst requiring prayers and sacrfices etc because she just doesnt care one way or the other.
This is what is about to cause the big civil war in Menzo as the head priestess now know the real history of the drow and her demons run things in her name since she cant be bothered to care, and if this info gets out well.... big changes for the Drow.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be a difference. I'm saying that the difference between Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms is really, really small.
It's like quibbling over the taste difference between Pepsi and Coke, when there's also orange soda, lemonade, coffee, or beer on the menu.
I mean, this doesn't really make sense. First off, let's not pretend "intimidate and shame" doesn't mean "bully". I hope you won't quibble with that.If someone is suggesting that complainers are hypocrites because they only complain about some changes and not others, or that complainers are so few in number as to be irrelevant, or that even the complaints themselves are unimportant, that's an attempt to intimidate and shame complainers into silence. And it certainly isn't showing respect for their point of view, or seeking to understand that point of view.
That's not really true. That box would encompass all D&D settings and virtually all fantasy RPGs, science-fantasy RPGs, urban fantasy RPGs, and so on.The difference are not very small unless you are simply grading it by "has heroes, magic, and monsters."
Sure, it can be apparently true that "there are few complainers" - though plenty of folks could be complaining about any particular problem, out of sight of this particular forum - but how often is that point raised as a way to further discussion and understanding? I'm having trouble seeing that as anything but an attempt to make the complainers feel small and irrelevant.1) "There are few complainers" - This is a fair point in many situations. It's not "bullying" to point it out. On the flipside, there being few complainers doesn't mean the complainers are wrong. You often see this with changes to the law - very often, a change might have no obvious impact to a layman, but a huge impact to a specialist who understands the consequences. However, that doesn't appear to apply here. Nonetheless, pointing it out is not bullying, but pointing it out doesn't mean you're automatically right. It does however mean that where things are simply a matter of taste/aesthetics, it's not likely to be a major problem.
It's a very small step from "the complaints are unimportant" to "the complainers are unimportant." And if you want to debate the relative merits, then you'd engage with the relative merits, not refocus the discussion on the grand cosmic significance of the complaints themselves. I mean, is a family argument over finances less "important" than arguments about global warming? Sure, but suggesting that the family argument isn't "important" enough to be worthwhile is just rude at best.2) "The complaints are unimportant" - This is no more "bullying" than suggesting the complaints are important. It's a discussion of opinions of the relative merits of things. The idea is to argue your case sufficiently persuasively that people are persuaded. People not being persuaded doesn't mean you're wrong, of course.
Re: "there are few complainers" being relevant, is that people often have exaggerated ideas about how widely-held their complaints are, and often to make arguments on the basis that their complaints are widely-held (for example, I saw someone trying to argue that "most people" disliked a movie in a series, when that movie was very successful financially and critically, quite recently - it was obvious that the "most people" existed solely in his mind). Pointing out that this is not the case is obviously valid, and trying to suggest it's merely an attempt to "hurt feelings" is, whilst kind of funny, not very valid.Sure, it can be apparently true that "there are few complainers" - though plenty of folks could be complaining about any particular problem, out of sight of this particular forum - but how often is that point raised as a way to further discussion and understanding? I'm having trouble seeing that as anything but an attempt to make the complainers feel small and irrelevant.
It's a very small step from "the complaints are unimportant" to "the complainers are unimportant." And if you want to debate the relative merits, then you'd engage with the relative merits, not refocus the discussion on the grand cosmic significance of the complaints themselves. I mean, is a family argument over finances less "important" than arguments about global warming? Sure, but suggesting that the family argument isn't "important" enough to be worthwhile is just rude at best.