The gish and the hex blade, what am I missing?

[Kurotowa]

I've been playing a single class Hexblade who's now 14th level. You want to know what some of my most used spells are? Armor of Agathys, Misty Step, and Dispel Magic. They're not there to make me better at fighting. I'm already pretty good at fighting, especially in a group that doesn't optimize, and if I need extra damage I've got Eldritch Smite. Instead, the spells are there to cover things like defense and mobility and utility that my sword fighting skills don't. So what you're missing is

4: She uses her magic to support her fighting with a larger array of tactical options that non-casters rarely get.

Not everything has to be a pure attack buff to be useful. The mobility to deal with terrain obstacles both in and out of combat is useful. The utility to pull out a clutch Dispel or Counterspell when the Wizard is tied up is useful. The ability to discourage a foe from hitting you because their attack sequence bounced 75 damage back into their face is useful. And that's before you start tucking in a few highly specialized spells into your list that almost never come up but are immensely useful when they do.

That's the appeal of the Hexblade for me.

 

[Ancalagon]

I've been playing a single class Hexblade who's now 14th level. You want to know what some of my most used spells are? Armor of Agathys, Misty Step, and Dispel Magic. They're not there to make me better at fighting. I'm already pretty good at fighting, especially in a group that doesn't optimize, and if I need extra damage I've got Eldritch Smite. Instead, the spells are there to cover things like defense and mobility and utility that my sword fighting skills don't. So what you're missing is

4: She uses her magic to support her fighting with a larger array of tactical options that non-casters rarely get.

Not everything has to be a pure attack buff to be useful. The mobility to deal with terrain obstacles both in and out of combat is useful. The utility to pull out a clutch Dispel or Counterspell when the Wizard is tied up is useful. The ability to discourage a foe from hitting you because their attack sequence bounced 75 damage back into their face is useful. And that's before you start tucking in a few highly specialized spells into your list that almost never come up but are immensely useful when they do.

That's the appeal of the Hexblade for me.

First of all, thank you so much for sharing your experience. Clearly you've been having a lot of fun with your character, and that is what matters most!

But... a college of sword with 1-3 levels of hexblade could have done all those things no?

 

[StormbringerAUS]

I would see a Gish and especially a Hexblade as a combatant who chips away but can Nova at a critical time to turn the tide or conclude an encounter.

Like all characters having some utility outside of combat is enjoyable as well, so this can be where a Gish outshines the straight fighter types.

 

[cbwjm]

First of all, thank you so much for sharing your experience. Clearly you've been having a lot of fun with your character, and that is what matters most!

But... a college of sword with 1-3 levels of hexblade could have done all those things no?

Why would it matter if a hexblade/college of sword bard could do all of those things as well?

 

[Zardnaar]

If I was going to convert a pathfinder magus (THE gish class) to 5e via a custom class, I would start with the paladin chassis, reduce hp to d8 and give cantrips... it needs more than that clearly , but that would be the foundation.

Without a custom class? College of sword/hexblade multiclass is where it's at imo.

I would just use the Paladin chassis and tweak smites and replace the Paladin aura with something else. 1 Path would be a duskblade type PC, the other a Swordmage type PC.

 

[Ancalagon]

Why would it matter if a hexblade/college of sword bard could do all of those things as well?

Because it can do all of those things as well AND have better skills AND better combat capacity...

 

[cbwjm]

Because it can do all of those things as well AND have better skills AND better combat capacity...

What if you want the high level warlock abilities?

Honestly, I think people on these forums (well, all forums) are too focused on trying to get the smallest boost to combat ability that they think anything less than a specific build is somehow underpowered and a waste.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

#1 is the classic gish – use magic to make yourself a better warrior. This is usually with spells that enhance mobility, survivability (defense spells) and offensive potential (things like haste, not magic missile).

The classic gish is a githyanki elite type who is a multiclassed fighter (or thief)/mage. These kids today though will call anyone that can swing a sword and cast a spell a "gish". Makes me roll my eyes to hear a paladin referred to as a "gish".

The way multiclassing worked in AD&D, #3 is closer to the concept than #1.

 

[FrogReaver]

My ideal gish would

1. Get extra attack and a fighting style (or some similar ability) to compliment it
2. Have a 2 decent offensive buffs
3. Have 3 differing and interesting defensive buffs
4. Have at least 1 buff that increases offense and defense
5. Be able to cast a variety of useful level 1 and 2 utility spells
6. Be able to cast at least 1 good aoe spell.
7. Be able to cast at least 1 control spell.
8. Be good at maintaining such buffs.
9. Have enough spell slots to maintain at least 1 combat buff per fight and still have a few spells left over for utility

Paladins come the closest to meeting these requirements. Very High level warlocks aren't far off either but lower level warlocks just really lack the spells to have this concept work.

Bladesinger wizards get close too.

 

[Kurotowa]

But... a college of sword with 1-3 levels of hexblade could have done all those things no?

Some of the same things, yes. Some things I can't do too. But I've got some tricks the Bard multiclass gives up, and for my character in my party those are valuable tricks. See in my campaign, I'm the front line. I run sword and board even though it's far from the most "optimal". And last session we had a fairly climactic battle where my life was saved twice by high level Warlock defensive abilities; once by Armor of Hexes and once by Tomb of Levistus. Without them I'd have been a thin red smear.

Maybe I'd do more damage as a Bard with a Hexblade dip. Maybe I'd be a better front liner if I were a different class entirely. But my group has an understanding where the players don't start a power level arms race by importing expertly minmaxed multi-class builds cribbed from the forums, and the DM doesn't throw similarly minmaxed encounters at us or play the NPCs as tactical geniuses unless it fits their character background. Which works out for the best for everyone, because this way I get to play the character I wanted to play and not have to follow a build guide I need to tie myself into knots to justify the level dips for.