The Gods are gone...now what?!?

[Munin]

A few weeks ago, a wonderfully imaginative person came up with the idea of a world where whoever dies is resurrected the next morning.
I couldn't find the thread, so I can't give the poster credit for his post, but you know who you are.

Anyway, another person suggested that the reason the souls of the dead come back is because the God of the Dead is indisposed and therefore unable to attend his duties of collecting souls.

So this got me to thinking, in the typical D&D world, a missing God would have a direct and immediate affect on the world. And besides being a really neat idea, it's a great way to torture the players.
If we simplify things down to generics, how would the world be changed if the God of Knowledge, War, Magic, Light, ect suddenly went missing, taking their domains with them?

 

[uv23]

So this got me to thinking, in the typical D&D world, a missing God would have a direct and immediate affect on the world.

Would it? I guess it depends on how you see the gods. I personally see them as great powers that have an interest and investment in their domains. I do not see them as the actual source of the concepts that they may emphasize. Therefore, I don't see any real effect other than a lack of divine magic and a shocker for those that die expecting to wake up in the afterlife.

I'm still waiting for a campaign setting where there are no gods, and instead the only divine casters running around are demon worshipers (of the armies of the abyss variety).

 

[Crothian]

Re: Re: The Gods are gone...now what?!?

I'm still waiting for a campaign setting where there are no gods, and instead the only divine casters running around are demon worshipers (of the armies of the abyss variety).

Dark Sun. Not exactly that, but it had no gods, just Sorcerer Kings.

 

[Maerdwyn]

Check out Monte Cook's new .pdf called, I think Requiem for a God , which deals with how to deal with the death of a god in a campaign.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Re: Re: The Gods are gone...now what?!?

how would the world be changed if the God of Knowledge, War, Magic, Light, ect suddenly went missing, taking their domains with them?

Hmmmm. Some simple mechanics might do it...

Knowledge - All Knowledge DCs are increased by 10. You can still read books, but the information is harder to process.

War - All leadership scores are reduced by half during combat. Fighting still exists, but not organized warfare.

Magic - Spells return at 1/5 the rate (so casters would have to rest for 40 hours to get their spells back). Ambient magic still lingers though.

Light - The sun grows dim. The brightest things get are "twilight" conditions. Drow and orcs rejoice!

All clerics of missing gods could still cast up to third level spells. Then their power of faith needs the power of the divine to fuel it. The ability to turn/command undead is gone.

...just some quick thoughts.

I'm still waiting for a campaign setting where there are no gods, and instead the only divine casters running around are demon worshipers (of the armies of the abyss variety).

Hmmm. What about Melnibone?

 

[uv23]

Re: Re: Re: The Gods are gone...now what?!?

Hmmm. What about Melnibone?

Been so long since I read the elric saga. I really must re-read it. Maybe if a non crap d20 dragonlords of melnibone is released...

 

[cybertalus]

I don't have the Manual of the Plains, so I don't know if they elaborate on this concept or not, but the Player's Handbook mentions that it is possible to have clerics who do not worship gods, but who instead follow ideals. Such clerics choose their domains based upon the ideals they follow.

If you want to have an entirely deity-free world, it shouldn't be too hard to design a dozen or so of the more popular ideals-based faiths. You could even do this almost randomly by making a chart of the available domains and rolling randomly on it twice to determine what interests a given order has. Assume orders with opposing domains oppose each other, toss in some strange alliances (the travel-healing order allied with the trickery-light order) and you're set to go.

As for missing gods, I'd toyed around with something similar once. I decided that spells relating to the domain could not be cast while the god was unavailable. Existing scrolls, potions, etc. would still work, but new ones could not be created. So if the god of Knowledge disappeared, no Divination spells or spells with the word "detect" in their name could be cast except from pre-existing magic items.

Of course if you really want to get the attention of the PCs, have the deity of healing go missing.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

It was mentioned above, but it bears repeating - Monte Cook's Requiem for a God discusses this exact subject. He includes easy-to-use mechanics, and very thoughtful discussions about how the death of a god would impact upon a campaign world. For $7, it can't be beat. I just finished this book, and it strikes me as being material that I would have said would go great in a DM Guide, Vol. II.

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I'm still waiting for a campaign setting where there are no gods, and instead the only divine casters running around are demon worshipers (of the armies of the abyss variety).

In my home-brewed campaign the gods have withdrawn from mortal affairs, without any explanation. The campaign-world, Khanesh, was made up of great theocratic empires. For each empire the loss of the gods has been devastating. The clergy can no longer communicate with their gods, nor receive spells.

In Mardukia the clerics were the ruling-class. After the Divine Silence civil unrest ensued in most cities, leading to widespread chaos and rebellion. The haflings, formerly enslaved, lead an insurrection in the city Armoth-Tur. Most non-hafling innhabitants were either slaughtered or driven out. Haflings in Khanesh are xenophobic, dangerous creatures.

Due to a conflict called the Demon Wars (started when an arrogant priest-king declared a crusade against evil and marched into the Abyss) several demonic powers have gained access to Khanesh. They are the only entities capable of granting spells. The alignment restrictions of clerics worshipping these demons have been removed, but the clerics slowly change alignment towards chaotic evil as they gain power.

The elves had a very close relationship with their deities. Their withdrawal drew the elves to unknown depths of despair. The corpses of elves who slew themselves and their families lingers on in ruins amidst dead trees. The corpses are unable to decompose due to the magical wards in elven cities. Thus the sorrow and desperation etched unto the faces of the dead remain as plain to see today as it was the day despair drew them to commit suicide. Nearly every elf did commit suicide, the few who did not wander Khanesh, broken, homeless.

I have posted more information about the campaign here:
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22562

I would appreciate any comments.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

To get back to the original question... I don't think the notion of very god-specific effects works for standard D&D. The gods have a lot of overlap. Their death will have smaller effects in line with what Monte suggests in Requiem for a God. If, however, you have gods that actually are the embodiment of a force or ideal, their death could lead to either disaster or stagnation:

Sun god (i.e. charioteer of the sun type): The sun doesn't rise the following morning. Or if it does, it is out of control: flying too high or too low, etc (borrowing heavily from Greek myth here). A suitable replacement must be found.

God of magic: There are a variety of possible effects. Someone earlier suggested that resting for spells would take longer. I would angle it more that the fabric of magic is harder to distort without the influence of the god. Higher level magics would not be available, and the effectiveness of all magic would be reduced. Magical research and development would be necessary, but because of the absence of the arcanists' patron, all such research is done at a significant penalty.

God of Knowledge/Wisdom/what have you: Technological (this includes magical) advancement stops as the inspiring force behind it is gone. The drive to improve one's knowledge also fades. Perhaps even the means of recording knowledge is lost (i.e. writing).

God of war: The desire to fight and make war is gone. The world breaks out in a rash of peace. But, lest one think this is entirely a good thing , the impetus to fight against injustice also fails. Evil creeps into power because good lacks the impetus to stand up and fight it.

And so on. Real world mythology (especially Greek) is full of this kind of thing because it often assumes that the gods have an active role in maintaining the world. Demeter stops paying attention to the Earth, and crops whither and fail. Eros tosses aside his bow, and no one falls in love for a while.