The hazards of letting a writer run your game...

[Mouseferatu]

Okay, folks, here you go:

The Selion Player's Handout

Make sure you read the notes at the beginning for some warnings, disclaimers, commentary, and legal issues.

Comments are welcome, so long as they're polite. If you feel this isn't the place for 'em, you're welcome to start a thread on the forums on my own web site.

Have fun.

 

[Shemeska]

Well, the core info for my campaign is sitting pretty at a word count of 41,449 words.

And frighteningly enough its not completely finished, and my notes for myself on the world and plots involved are probably triple that at this point. But hey, if you enjoy it, it just happens. *chuckle*

 

[Agback]

I'm amazed at how different our approaches are! You have all that cosmogony and history, which is material that I scarcely touch on. And you barely mention anything about families or daily life, diet, architecture, agriculture....

Regards,


Agback

 

[Mouseferatu]

I'm amazed at how different our approaches are! You have all that cosmogony and history, which is material that I scarcely touch on. And you barely mention anything about families or daily life, diet, architecture, agriculture....

Regards,


Agback

Well, there are a few reasons for that...

One, I like writing about/creating the "big picture" of the setting (even if, in this particular case, most of it is just recounting the events of past campaigns). I really don't like writing about daily life, diet, etc. Obviously, when I'm writing for publication, I can get over that dislike, but in an informal case...

Two, to be honest, most of my players don't tend to care about the little details like that--and those who do would prefer to make it up themselves, at least where their own characters are concerned.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Incidentally, in case it wasn't clear, the Company of the Dragon and the Heirs of the Dragon are both parties of PCs, and the events described (for the most part) took place during previous campaigns.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Well, the core info for my campaign is sitting pretty at a word count of 41,449 words.

And frighteningly enough its not completely finished, and my notes for myself on the world and plots involved are probably triple that at this point. But hey, if you enjoy it, it just happens. *chuckle*

Don't I know it.

I have no idea how much Selion material I actually have, since some of it so old I only have it in hard copy, not on computer. (And because the old stuff applies to the setting as it existed 1,500 years ago, a lot of it is no longer relevant.)

The 15.9K of this handout is just the player info; it's not, by a longshot, the entirety of what I've got on the world.

 

[Agback]

G'day

In case anyone is interested in comparing my approach with Mouseferatu's, I have put a description of my setting up at http://users.cyberone.com.au/evill/gehennum/blurb.html

This version (not quite complete) is rather more ample than the handout I circulate among players, but it is nothing like as voluminous as the three-quarters-finished encyclopaedia. And even that doesn't contain everything that is in my notes. I've been running Gehennum campaigns since 1988, and the setting is, well, elaborate.

EDIT: by the way, the email contact addresses in the Gehennum website are out of date, and I'm not convinced that it is wise to update them. If you want to pass comment on Gehennum, use the e-mail address in my ENworld profile.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Mouseferatu]

G'day

In case anyone is interested in comparing my approach with Mouseferatu's, I have put a description of my setting up at http://users.cyberone.com.au/evill/gehennum/blurb.html

This version (not quite complete) is rather more ample than the handout I circulate among players, but it is nothing like as voluminous as the three-quarters-finished encyclopaedia. And even that doesn't contain everything that is in my notes. I've been running Gehennum campaigns since 1988, and the setting is, well, elaborate.

Elaborate indeed.

Again, you've definitely taken a more completist view than I have. That's cool; I like seeing stuff like that. Of course, you have the advantage of only having one primary culture to deal with; the continent of Galadras has over a dozen nations, each with their own customs and traditions.

That's not meant to belie your accomplishment. I've gone into details of that sort on the upcoming Shadow Branch setting, so I know how much work it takes. It's just far more than I'm willing--or, to be honest, able--to do right now for something that's not going to see publication.

There's no need for comparisons, really. I'll happily concede that yours is a lot more complete and in-depth than mine. I'm comfortable with that.

 

[Agback]

There's no need for comparisons, really. I'll happily concede that yours is a lot more complete and in-depth than mine. I'm comfortable with that.

Perhaps it is, but that's not what I think is interesting. What I think is interesting is the very narrow overlap of subject matter between our two screeds. I don't present more detailed history and cosmogony than you do. On the contrary, I present very little history an no cosmogony at all. Instead I concentrate on what the place and its people are like.

I wonder whether you consider yourself to have been influenced by Tolkien. Tolkien's world-building is much more elaborate than mine, but like you he paid almost no attention to how people lived, what they wore, etc.

Let's get away from the issue of detail. Look at this sketch:

Ramastaarn

Ramastaarn is an archipelago of low but extensive atolls about 4600 kilometres East-North-East of Thekla (well beyond the bounds of Gehennum and, for that matter, beyond the Terminator, on that face of the World of Isles from which Indarian cannot be seen).

The people of Ramastaarn are not related to the Gehennese and their kin of the Blessed Isles, nor to the people of Fairon. They are tall, taller even than the Faironese, but less heavily built. Their skins are extremely dark, their eyes are brown, and they have curly or frizzy black hair.

Among the most accomplished builders in the World of Isles, the Ramastaarnii make massive palaces and lodge halls, and enormous step-pyramid temples out of porous limestone. Yet, like the people of the Blessed Isles, they lack mineral resources and must import their metal tools at considerable expense.

Ramastaarni society has a marked and unusual division of roles between men and women. A woman is born a member of her mother’s matriclan. This group owns and rules a swatch of land, often at least one whole atoll. Each matriclan is ruled by an hereditary queen.
Boys are born without status. On coming of age at thirteen most are are initiated into one of the totem lodges that span Ramastaarn. Each lodge controls either a trade or profession or certain fishing or hunting rights. Initiates are taught the economic skills of their lodge in a type of apprenticeship, and also learn the secret rules and quasi-religious mysteries of the lodge. Lodge membership and status provide a man with his means of livelihood and social position.

Many Ramastaarni totem lodges have ideals, training disciplines, and mysteries designed to promote the creation of avatars. The better hunting and fishing lodges aim at creating Persiflegians and Khryseians, the craft lodges, at training Timeonides, while the Raven Lodge of mercenary guards trains Luciphagians, the Pearl Shell Lodge of weapon-makers trains Vesperian martial artists, and the privileged Red Flower Lodge trains Jolianides to protect Ramastaarn against monsters and pirates. On a less martial trend, the Eternal Lodge trains Amaranthi bards, and the Sky Dome Temple Lodge trains the Chansithi shamans who assign boys to their proper lodges.

Men without lodge membership—rejects, outcasts and criminals—along with junior members of poor lodges and unemployed members of professional lodges, must emigrate, starve, or work as labourers on buildings or in the women’s fields.

No marriage is allowed in Ramastaarn, and men are not allowed permanent residence in the women’s palaces. Tradition forbids anything that might suggest that a woman belonged to a man. Women expect to be courted with gifts and compliments, to enjoy flirtation and a liaison no longer than they wish for, untrammeled by masculine possessiveness. Lasting affaires are enlivened by the impossibility of cohabitation and a thousand rules and accidents that threaten to part the lovers. Apart from this, no taboos restrict sexual opportunity.

In Ramastaarn the cadavers of queens, heroes, and grand masters of lodges are not cremated with the normal run of folk, but mummified over smoky fires and preserved as objects of veneration.

Ramastaarni clothing is simple and scanty. A simple loincloth, perhaps secured by a leather belt, or a maxcatl, will do. Embroidered, smocked, and tasselled ponchos and semi-circular mantles are formal or festive wear. Jewellery and head-dresses proclaim wealth, status, and lodge or matriclan affiliation.

Typical artifacts of Ramastaarn are made of wood, shell, bone, and bamboo. Weapons are spears, slings, atl-atls, and wooden clubs and swords set with shark’s teeth and splinters of shell or bone. Ramastaarni boats are fast, two-masted sea-going catamarans.

See? That's not more detailed than your work. It just shows a completely different focus.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Mouseferatu]

I wonder whether you consider yourself to have been influenced by Tolkien. Tolkien's world-building is much more elaborate than mine, but like you he paid almost no attention to how people lived, what they wore, etc.

You know, that's an interesting question/observation. Let's see...

I wouldn't say I was influenced by Tolkien directly. I didn't actually read LotR until college. (I know, shame on me.)

But...

My initial ideas about what a fantasy world should look like came from D&D itself, Dragonlance (which I really don't much care for anymore, but loved as a teenager), Raymon Feist's Riftwar, and David Eddings' Belgariad. (My ideas have somewhat shifted over time, of course, but you never fully shake your original notions no matter how had you try.) None of those are particularly heavy on the minute details of everyday life, so I guess you've got the right theory, just the wrong source.

(Of course, all of these were themselves influenced to a greater or lesser extent by Tolkien, so ultimately, he is part of it.)

As I mentioned, I'm willing and able to create such details when it's demanded of me, such as in a professional project. For my own personal use, though, I'm a bit less formal about it. If some really cool idea for a local custom or tradition or feature comes to mind, I'll include it. I won't usually sit down specifically to create such things, though.

Partially, as I mentioned, it's because I just don't enjoy doing so. And also (again, I'm repeating myself), because some of my players like the freedom to create such things on their own. My wife, for instance, has a regular habit of taking a very general description of a nature or culture, and developing a character background that involves far more in-depth material about the culture than I would ever have considered writing unless I had to.

Also, by not developing such stuff ahead of time, it leaves me some freedom, as a DM, to develop it on the fly, if/when the ideas come to me. And since many of my nations (though certainly not all) are loosely based on real-world equivalents, my players have a starting point. For intsance, the nation of Tahr N'lohn is very clearly a Roman analog, so my players have an image already ingrained, even though they know not all the details will match.

I guess, in a nutshell, that describes my DMing style in general. I prefer to create the big picture, but fill in the little details as we go. I do it with many of my worlds (as Selion shows), and with my plots as well; I usually create the basic outline for the stories (always malleable, in case my players surprise me, of course), but the details and specifics are often last-minute or even ad-libbed.