D&D General The History of 'Immersion' in RPGs

D&D historian Jon Peterson has taken a look at the concept of 'immersion' as it related to tabletop roleplaying games, with references to the concept going back to The Wild Hunt (1977), D&D modules like In Search of the Unknown, games like Boot Hill, and Forgotten Realms creator Ed Greenwood speaking in Dragon Magazine.

Immersion and Role Playing in the 1970s

The idea that role playing involved a property called "immersion" occurred to the early adopters of the 1970s fairly early. The earliest e...

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[Oofta]

I am of two minds regarding the idea that players should not necessarily know the rules and just describe what their character wants to accomplish: on the one hand, I totally understand the goal of immersion and do think for some kinds of players some of the time, not worrying about mechanics helps them make decisions in character; on the other hand, nothing ruins immersion quite like having to backpedal because you did not understand the mechanical consequences of a particular fictional action.

I'm not sure how deep the connection between immersion and describing what your character is doing, at least not for everyone. I mean, when I'm watching a movie I can either just ignore the movie or analyze how the movie was made. I know there are sets, cameras, CGI and so on, that doesn't mean I can't be immersed in the story.

Similar with game rules. Trying to "force" immersion by trying to ignore the mechanics wouldn't work for me because I know the mechanics are there. That doesn't mean I have to focus on the mechanics (unless that's my preference of course). I try to run a descriptive game and encourage "flair" but there are many ways to encourage immersion. Ignoring rules mechanics does not have to be one of them and IMHO trying to force a style on a group that it doesn't work for is worse.

 

[Reynard]

The phrase "suspension of disbelief" dates to Samuel Coleridge, in 1817. The idea, according to about 5 minutes of research, goes back to at least ancient Rome (Horace).

I don't think @SirGrotius was saying that Stephen King came up with the term. i think they were talking about HOW Stephen King used the technique.

 

[Reynard]

I'm not sure how deep the connection between immersion and describing what your character is doing, at least not for everyone. I mean, when I'm watching a movie I can either just ignore the movie or analyze how the movie was made. I know there are sets, cameras, CGI and so on, that doesn't mean I can't be immersed in the story.

That seems very weird to me. I am not sure I can imagine being immersed in the story while also thinking about what the gaffer might have been doing during the shot.

 

[Oofta]

That seems very weird to me. I am not sure I can imagine being immersed in the story while also thinking about what the gaffer might have been doing during the shot.

What I'm trying to say: I ignore the gaffer even though I know they're there (well, most of the time) even though I know he's there. Sometimes when reading a book I start thinking about the words and the author's story structure instead of letting myself get immersed. When playing a game, it's my choice whether or not I focus on mechanics.

Maybe someday we'll put on VR goggles and step into the campaign world. Until then I still have to roll polyhedral dice and know what my PC can do in order to interact with the campaign world. Making minor changes to how I declare what my PC is doing won't make much of a difference.

 

[MGibster]

Similar with game rules. Trying to "force" immersion by trying to ignore the mechanics wouldn't work for me because I know the mechanics are there. That doesn't mean I have to focus on the mechanics (unless that's my preference of course). I try to run a descriptive game and encourage "flair" but there are many ways to encourage immersion. Ignoring rules mechanics does not have to be one of them and IMHO trying to force a style on a group that it doesn't work for is worse.

The "G" in RPG stands for game. When I'm reading a book or watching a movie I'm always aware that I'm reading a book or watching a movie no matter how into I am. Likewise, no matter how into a game or what rules I'm using I will always realize I'm playing a game.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I am of two minds regarding the idea that players should not necessarily know the rules and just describe what their character wants to accomplish: on the one hand, I totally understand the goal of immersion and do think for some kinds of players some of the time, not worrying about mechanics helps them make decisions in character; on the other hand, nothing ruins immersion quite like having to backpedal because you did not understand the mechanical consequences of a particular fictional action.

There's another kind of player who internalizes the mechanics into just another way of describing the scene - saying someone's 'down 12 hit points' is no harder to visualize than a specific description of the exact wound taken. For such players the mechanical description is actually better, because it also ensure continuity of the scene - the differences in how things are imagined won't clash because the ways things will interact is spelled out clearly.

(I am this sort - trying to hide the rules is more immersion breaking than letting me use them to see what's happening.)

 

[Lord Mhoram]

There's another kind of player who internalizes the mechanics into just another way of describing the scene - saying someone's 'down 12 hit points' is no harder to visualize than a specific description of the exact wound taken. For such players the mechanical description is actually better, because it also ensure continuity of the scene - the differences in how things are imagined won't clash because the ways things will interact is spelled out clearly.

(I am this sort - trying to hide the rules is more immersion breaking than letting me use them to see what's happening.)

I can be this sort, I try to be. I have to know a games rule system inside out to be able to. Part of the reason I stick with games I like for decades. I had no issues doing this with HERO. For me the other side of this is that it almost has to be a traditional game structure for me to be able to do this - using fate points, or drama editing or such pulls me out. Same with conflict resolution over task resolution - I can tie the mechanics of trying to pick a lock to one roll of the die, and the mechanics are the fiction. But if the die roll represents more than just the one action, I have a hard time tying it to the fiction.

I play games that are non traditional when I am not trying for immersion, but for a different kind of play experience.

 

[Reynard]

I can be this sort, I try to be. I have to know a games rule system inside out to be able to. Part of the reason I stick with games I like for decades. I had no issues doing this with HERO. For me the other side of this is that it almost has to be a traditional game structure for me to be able to do this - using fate points, or drama editing or such pulls me out. Same with conflict resolution over task resolution - I can tie the mechanics of trying to pick a lock to one roll of the die, and the mechanics are the fiction. But if the die roll represents more than just the one action, I have a hard time tying it to the fiction.

I play games that are non traditional when I am not trying for immersion, but for a different kind of play experience.

That's interesting. I can see it. If that singular die roll is part of the flow of the narrative it becomes almost invisible even as it informs the events in play.
Now that I am thinking about it, I feel like I have been counteracting immersion for a while, since I picked up a tendency to ask for "approaches and goals" from the players instead of just asking, "What do you DO?" Huh.

 

[Hriston]

Speaking for myself, as someone with a background in stage acting, there is almost nothing I find less immersive than the idea of "acting within the rolled characteristics of characters" that Jon Peterson attributes to Kevin Slimak and Mike Carr. My character is not worried about making decisions that are too smart for himself, so any process that involves that sort of thinking would prevent me from feeling like I'm inhabiting the role of my character.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

That's interesting. I can see it. If that singular die roll is part of the flow of the narrative it becomes almost invisible even as it informs the events in play.

That's it exactly.