D&D 5E The Immortal Bard: 5eing up yer Minstrels

[steeldragons]

Ok...so they're not "immortal"...but you get the gist.

Since we can assume the Bard class will appear as a "core" class in 5e/Next/DnDTNG, how would you like to see it done? What version/edition did the Bard best in your opinion? What skills, abilities, magics would you like to see included in the class?

What's your 5e Bard look like?

Personally, I've always maintained (and would like to see a return to) the Bard's more "natural" powered/closely related to druidism/Celtic roots than the "harp-spell slinging arcanist" it became in later editions.

I'd be down with something like this:

Bard
-HD 6 (like a Thief/Rogue and hopefully an Assassin has HD 8, but that's a different thread)
-light armor (padded, leather, studded leather only)
-limited/light/"simple" weapons (single handed blades, bows, crossbows, basically anything a thief can use, a bard can use)

-Spellcasting: Bardic Magic Spellsong List (see below) A Bard must have access to their instrument and/or voice to cast their spellsongs.

-Thieve's Skills: depending on how they work these could be diverse, but I would think it should, at least, include: Stealth/Hiding in Shadows & Moving Silently, Perception/Hearing Noise, maybe some Thievery/Picking Pockets but not necessarily any of the "trap" stuff.

-Automatic Skills: Performance (instrument), Performance (singing or oratory), Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Ancient History of the bard's region of origin).
-Gain a Knowledge Skill (or additional rank in existing skills, this all depends on how 5e implements Skills, obviously) of the players choice (in addition to other class skills allowed) every other level.

-Bardic Charm: once per day per Bard level the character may attempt a "Charm" effect on a creature(s) that can see and hear their music/voice that does not exceed the Bard's own HD+1. The effected creature(s) act as if under a "Friendship" spell toward the Bard and will take everything the Bard says as truth.

-Bardic "Legend Lore": not sure how this works, but some kind of mechanic that allows the Bard a chance to "have heard" something about some topic that they don't necessarily have any "official Skill/Knowledge" in. There should also be a chance/mechanic that what the Bard "knows" or "has heard" may be false or remembered wrong.

Bardic Spellsongs
0 Level "Limmericks"..........1st level........................2nd level
Dancing Lights.....................Bless...........................Animal Friendship
Daze..................................Calm Animals...............Cure Light Wounds
Detect Magic.......................Disguise Self..........Detect Invisibility (Sonar)
Ghost Sound----------------Obscurement...............Invisibility
Silent Image-----------------Remove Fear...............Minor Image
Ventriloquism......................Sleep.........................."Sonic"[Color] Spray

3rd level
Alter Self
Cure Moderate Wounds
Dispel Magic
Hold Person
Summon Swarm
Wood Shape

etc. etc.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

that sounds more or less like the 3.5 bard... i don´t want that back...
the only version of the game where i didn´t really like him...

I would rather aim for either a skald (with higher emphasis on strength than the 4e one) or a spell wielding bard of 2nd edition.

But if I had to chose, the 4e skald would be my favourite.

 

[BobTheNob]

Yep it does(sound like a 3.5 bard that is). Your also making all sorts of assumptions as to the nature of 5e skills, 5e spells, 5e hits points, 5e equipment, 5e mechanics.

Trying to nut down how a class should work before we even know how the system can work is a pretty tall order.

 

[Hassassin]

3.5 bard is the version that best represents the kinds of abilities I expect from a bard. The OP one is quite close, but I would streamline it.

Why does the bard need a "bardic knowledge" ability when there are already mechanics for knowledge, namely skills. Just give him a bonus on all knowledge skills and let hit use them untrained. (In 3e terms - translate as appropriate.) Similarly, charm already has mechanics (both skills and spells), so why not reuse those.

Other than that, maybe make the bard slightly better with weapons than in 3e. I would like to see bard as the default arcane warrior class.

For inspiration, Kvothe from the Name of the Wind.

 

[tuxgeo]

Ok...so they're not "immortal"...but you get the gist.

Since we can assume the Bard class will appear as a "core" class in 5e/Next/DnDTNG, how would you like to see it done? What version/edition did the Bard best in your opinion? What skills, abilities, magics would you like to see included in the class?

What's your 5e Bard look like? < . . . snip . . .>

1. Most importantly: Build on what came before in terms of armor, weapons, skills, spells, and special features. (We're trying to unify, here.)

2. The Bard class has to be able to build Elan Tarquin, or else somebody's in a whole lot of trouble.

3. Any Bard is able to act as though he or she has several ranks in Perform, even if Perform isn't a legal skill, and even if skills don't get ranks. (That's right, "Acting As Though" becomes a new Class Feature.)

4. Magic Fashion Sense: Since the word "Bard" is "Drab" spelled backward, every Bard has the Extraordinary Ability to take any drab piece of clothing and "turn it around" to make it look truly special.

5. Magic spells oriented more toward charm/enchantment rather than illusion.
-- a. Disguise Self or disguise others ("Make Up"), yes; but no stationary images.
-- b. The only Evocations Bards get are to evoke reactions from their audiences. They don't get to evoke Elemental effects.
-- c. Any Summoning must be either musical, poetic, dancing, or dramatic: Songbirds, lyre birds, butterflies, and shaggy dogs (for their "stories") are OK. Bulettes aren't.

6. Magic spells mostly as areas-of-effect. For single-target attacks, they should be using weapons in preference to magic.

 

[Gryph]

I want Bards to to fully revert to their 1e Druidic roots. Any spells they get (as opposed to class abilites) should come from the druid lists.

As for the rest, I like the warrior skald/bard to the warchief vibe, so they should get medium armors, up to chain, and a good selection of martial weapons.

They should have a knack for making friends and influencing people, maybe expressed as a bonus to charisma checks in appropriate situations.

They should definetly retain some flavor of Legend Lore, though with no more than I now of 5e I'm not sure how that might look yet.

Other than some possible ability to identify or use magic items from their Legend Lore ability, I don't think the Bard should be an arcane caster. I also would prefer they not have much of a thiefly skill. Their exploration abilities should be restricted to their knowledge of obscure history and some abilities to deal with primal spirits (from their druidic training).

I'd also like to see higher level abilities to invoke geas and curse through satire.

 

[Sunseeker]

Honestly I'd love to see an entirely non-magical bard. Bardic music was enchanting and magical because it was GOOD, because bards told stories, sung songs, winked at the ladies better than ANYONE in the land. They didn't do it because they were magically enhanced or so such.

I'm fine with Bards casting spells mind you, but I'd love to see entirely non-magical bards. Great place to build up the concept of non-magical morale bonuses/penalties.

 

[BobTheNob]

We can talk intention here without laying out mechanics (I think thats fair enough given we dont have any idea what mechanics will be).

I actually want the bard to not be a spell caster in the same sense of the mage or cleric. I want songs to be "fleshed out", more robust in design that they are touching on what spells do without actually being spells. Give the bard his "own stick" without having to borrow off parts from other classes cause the final design ended up being a little "incomplete".

Oh, and no, not a "support" class. I would FAR prefer and "adaptive" class.

My two cents.

(Edit : Then after "re-reading" I noticed how many "double quotes" I used in that post...kinda "over-used" them really)

 

[Kynn]

-Bardic Charm: once per day per Bard level the character may attempt a "Charm" effect on a creature(s) that can see and hear their music/voice that does not exceed the Bard's own HD+1. The effected creature(s) act as if under a "Friendship" spell toward the Bard and will take everything the Bard says as truth.

What would be the in-world explanation for this Daily Power?

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I want Bards to to fully revert to their 1e Druidic roots. Any spells they get (as opposed to class abilites) should come from the druid lists.

Yes, please.