The Immortals Handbook

[Darkness]

5) Balrogs (I'd like to use something like this for the name of Chaotic Evil Infernals).

I call them Abyssals.

 

[Impeesa]

*Dives in to rescue puppies*

Just wanted to add that today I managed to pick up that Warcraft: Shadows & Light book today. I haven't had time to read much yet, though a quick flick through looked very interesting, lots of new epic material. Hopefully I'll get to read some more tonight with a review sometime in the future.

Cool, hope you find it interesting. You'll notice the stat blocks use a lot of material from earlier Warcraft books - if you're curious about what any of it does, shoot me an email and I can fill you in.

--Impeesa--

 

[S'mon]

Hi Craig!

Hi all!

I am wondering if I can get a second opinion on certain words and whether they would be copyright protected or not.

1) Baernodaemons (as in Baernoloths, although I don't want to mention that word).
2) Altrodaemons (as above)
3) Demodand (not Gehreleth)
4) The Wasting Tower (as in the place the Daemons rule Hades from)
5) Balrogs (I'd like to use something like this for the name of Chaotic Evil Infernals).

None of these are detailed, simply referenced once or twice. I'm just wondering which I'll have to change. Balrog is perhaps a given, but I am wondering if theres something similar...but different.

None of these are copyrightable under UK or US law, though WoTC might class some as Product Identity under the OGL meaning you can't use them while abiding by the OGL. Use would not infringe UK Trademark law but in the US it conceivably could, though I reckon not use in the way you describe. You real question though is whether you'd get a nasty letter from a US in-house lawyer for WoTC or the Tolkien estate (or whoever thinks they 'own' Balrog - NB even if Balrog were a registered TM in the UK your use wouldn't be infringing the TM under UK law). As has been said, there seems a possibility of this re 'balrog' due to prior TSR-Tolkien Estate wrangles. This does not mean they have a legal right to prevent people using the word, it just means they act as if they have that right, a very important distinction. You can end up in court without having done anything illegal.

(BTW I recommend www.chillingeffects.org)

 

[CRGreathouse]

(Note: I'm not even close to a lawyer)

None of these are copyrightable under UK or US law, though WoTC might class some as Product Identity under the OGL meaning you can't use them while abiding by the OGL. Use would not infringe UK Trademark law but in the US it conceivably could, though I reckon not use in the way you describe. You real question though is whether you'd get a nasty letter from a US in-house lawyer for WoTC or the Tolkien estate (or whoever thinks they 'own' Balrog - NB even if Balrog were a registered TM in the UK your use wouldn't be infringing the TM under UK law). As has been said, there seems a possibility of this re 'balrog' due to prior TSR-Tolkien Estate wrangles. This does not mean they have a legal right to prevent people using the word, it just means they act as if they have that right, a very important distinction. You can end up in court without having done anything illegal.

I agree that none of these are subject to copyright, under any laws I've ever heard of. I have seen similar terms used as US trademarks, so this is a possibility (even if they couldn't be UK trademarks).

None of these terms is claimed by Wizards of the Coast as Product Identity, but could be in some way Intellectual Property.

I'd stay away from anything Tolkien Estates thinks it owns; it loves to use its lawyers, and can afford a court battle that you couldn't.

 

[Anabstercorian]

*more kittens, puppies* "Release! RELEASE!"

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Darkness!

I call them Abyssals.

I (now) call them Lelirium which is an alternate name for Igneus Demons (aka Balors in D&D).

So maybe Balrogs are the name for advanced Balors.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Impeesa mate!

Cool, hope you find it interesting.

It looks like good stuff...now all I need is the time to read it!

You'll notice the stat blocks use a lot of material from earlier Warcraft books -

Yes there does seem quite a bit of that.

if you're curious about what any of it does, shoot me an email and I can fill you in.

I'll probably be okay with it, but I reserve the right to contact you just in case. Thanks dude.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Craig!

Hey S'mon!

None of these are copyrightable under UK or US law, though WoTC might class some as Product Identity under the OGL meaning you can't use them while abiding by the OGL. Use would not infringe UK Trademark law but in the US it conceivably could, though I reckon not use in the way you describe. You real question though is whether you'd get a nasty letter from a US in-house lawyer for WoTC or the Tolkien estate (or whoever thinks they 'own' Balrog - NB even if Balrog were a registered TM in the UK your use wouldn't be infringing the TM under UK law). As has been said, there seems a possibility of this re 'balrog' due to prior TSR-Tolkien Estate wrangles. This does not mean they have a legal right to prevent people using the word, it just means they act as if they have that right, a very important distinction. You can end up in court without having done anything illegal.

(BTW I recommend www.chillingeffects.org)

Thanks for the info. I think I'll err on the side of caution where possible, since the previously mentioned words are not crucial in any way, simply a convenience.

In place of Graz'zt, Fraz-Urb'luu and Zuggtmoy I use Choronz'zon, Far-Zul'hur, and Tsuggothia. Orcus, Pazuzu and Demogorgon references were unchanged. All six are mentioned but briefly.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey CRGreathouse mate!

(Note: I'm not even close to a lawyer)

S'mon is, specialising in copyright law.

I still remember is dressing down of AEG staff when we spotted Worship Points System at the back of one of their books at Gencon UK a few years back.

I agree that none of these are subject to copyright, under any laws I've ever heard of. I have seen similar terms used as US trademarks, so this is a possibility (even if they couldn't be UK trademarks).

None of these terms is claimed by Wizards of the Coast as Product Identity, but could be in some way Intellectual Property.

I'd stay away from anything Tolkien Estates thinks it owns; it loves to use its lawyers, and can afford a court battle that you couldn't.

That might work to my advantage. If the Tolkein estate end up taking me for every penny that could mean they have to pay off my student debts. Hurrah! I'm changing the name to the Balrog's Handbook by Gandalf the Grey! Thats what i'm Tolkein about!*

*please excuse the bad pun...its late in the day.

 

[Alzrius]

U_K, your using of Tsuggothia makes me wonder, what would the IH take on the Cthulhu mythos be? (I'll ask more pointed questions than this admittedly-vague one as per your answers ).