The Immortals Handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Greetings U_K! Wow...it's been ages since I've seen you...I've still got that old 3/30/2003 PDF copy of the IH appendicies I-III, including the illustirous "Challenging Challenge Ratings"...

Must be about 8 months then.

Hope you are keeping well Kirin'Tor mate?

so what's the news? This thread is a bit lengthy to peruse, so I'll cut to the meat: What's the status on the IH?

Well the news is that the first pdf is very close to being finished but some real life has recently raised its ugly head and I have been finding it hard getting any quality time to finish things off.

And what's this thing your wating on a friend to do?

I have been trying to get the domain name for my website purchased - I can't 'buy' it myself because I don't have a credit card.

I finally got around to getting (some of) that campaign website together...the one I spoke about way back when. Just as then as know, I can't wait for the IH to be out so I can stat some gods...

Well I am sorry to keep you (and any others) waiting.

Anyway, I'll try to keep up with this thread now that I've found it.

Okay.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Any time, U_K.

Of course at that time I wasn't a fan -- I posted here more rarely and mostly to point out flaws. I've mellowed over time.

Cheeky monkey!

Well, I guess I'll keep my questions short and far between now, in the hopes that the time you aren't answering my questions will bring you closer to completion. I'd really like to have the Apotheosis PDF in the next quarter-year, and with luck the hardcopy early in 2005. Does that sound reasonable?

If I can get one solid week of work done the first pdf would be practically ready for the editing stage.

(Yes, I realize my 'I'll stop asking questions now' paragraph turned into a 'when will it be done' question. I blame it on my desire for the book.)

Well I appreciate the interest people have shown and apologise for any sloth on my part.

 

[S'mon]

You don't need a domain name for a website of course, and there are free Bulletin-board providers too; not that a website initially needs a BBS, a link to ENW House Rules would do fine.

 

[Dark Wolf 97]

Hey U_K!

Got another question, or actually an idea and several questions:

My campaign is centered around a war being fought against the Dark Covenant, a group of uber-powerful baddies (a half-demon fighter18, an advanced balor, a primal vampire drd14 rng20, a death knight ftr16 blk20, primal vampire brd20 rog19, eternal lich wiz42, ghost sor26 drd26, demigod mummy clr 50, and a titan) who direct this war behind the scenes.

My first question is: will you tell me anything on the power level you see a titan having, and what kind of powersit should have. The titan I am designing is a 75 HD beast with Str 64 Dex 13 Con 53 Int 35 Wis 40 Cha 31, and major resistances against divine powers, as well as a bad@$$ warhammer.

A major factor in the game is the fact that the gods do not realize that a titan is loose. My plans for the final battle are for the god of the cleric to intercede...and be destroyed in the fight against the Titan, grant the PCs divine power...and a whole world of trouble.

My second question: what do you think?

See you later.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi S'mon!

You don't need a domain name for a website of course, and there are free Bulletin-board providers too; not that a website initially needs a BBS, a link to ENW House Rules would do fine.

Well, I was trying to lend some officiality (with regards the domain name) to proceedings.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey U_K!

Hiya mate!

Got another question, or actually an idea and several questions:

My campaign is centered around a war being fought against the Dark Covenant, a group of uber-powerful baddies (a half-demon fighter18, an advanced balor, a primal vampire drd14 rng20, a death knight ftr16 blk20, primal vampire brd20 rog19, eternal lich wiz42, ghost sor26 drd26, demigod mummy clr 50, and a titan) who direct this war behind the scenes.

Interesting bunch.

How advanced is the Balor. What are Primal vampires and Eternal Liches? I presume these are third party templates?

Also note that straight up (meat and potato) Fighter types are more likely to be henchmen than leaders unless they have a large army behind them. Even then you want the Fighter types to have about 10% more levels than spellcasters to give them parity.

The half-demon 18th-level Fighter seems rather underpowered compared to the rest, which should probably reflect his standing in the group.

These characters (an advanced balor, a primal vampire drd14 rng20, a death knight ftr16 blk20, primal vampire brd20 rog19, eternal lich wiz42, ghost sor26 drd26) are all Quasi-deity level power (without actualy having the quasi-deity template that is).

The Mummy Cleric Demigod is about as powerful as a weak Lesser Power. Which means he and the Titan are clearly the most powerful.

My first question is: will you tell me anything on the power level you see a titan having, and what kind of powers it should have.

Depends on your definition of Titan.

I mean there are Monster Manual Titans (Probably weak Quasi-deity equivalents) and Epic Level Handbook Elder Titans (probably weak Lesser Power equivalents) and Greek Titans (who fit well as either Greater Powers or Elder Ones).

The titan I am designing is a 75 HD beast with Str 64 Dex 13 Con 53 Int 35 Wis 40 Cha 31, and major resistances against divine powers, as well as a bad@$$ warhammer.

Presumably using the Elder Titan as a basis?

A major factor in the game is the fact that the gods do not realize that a titan is loose. My plans for the final battle are for the god of the cleric to intercede...and be destroyed in the fight against the Titan, grant the PCs divine power...and a whole world of trouble.

How powerful is this god?

Also, out of curiousity how many PCs are there and what are there levels?

My second question: what do you think?

I think the key to any such working relationship between evil forces is going to be power. The strong are going to try and dominate the weak.

There definately seems to be multiple tiers within this evil group.

1. The Titan
2. The Demigod
3. All the others except...
4. The Half-demon Fighter

To me it seems as though the Demigod is the leader, the Half-demon Fighter his henchman and the others slightly subordinate but powerful enough so as not to be ordered about.

The Titan could be the beast the group were trying to free.

So I am not sure if you wanted them all to be fairly equal or if this is just a gathering of long-standing npcs, coming together for a special purpose?

You could always change the Demigod Cleric to a Hunefer (from the ELH) if you wanted them to be fairly equal.

See you later.

Take care.

 

[Dark Wolf 97]

Hi again U_K!

Originally posted by U_K.
How advanced is the Balor. What are Primal vampires and Eternal Liches? I presume these are third party templates?

The Balor is 27 HD. The Primal Vampire template is the "first" or "first pair" in my case of vampires on a plane or the multiverse, you can see the creative geniuses at Dicefreaks for any of the templates, in the official releases forum. I also use the DF templates on the ghost (eidolon), death knight (death lord) and mummy (transcendant dead).

The half-demon fighter is actully part of a half-demon race with 6 HD, then add the 18 Fighter levels. He is the leader of the main armies, and thus his leadership.

Originally posted by U_K.
The Mummy Cleric Demigod is about as powerful as a weak Lesser Power. Which means he and the Titan are clearly the most powerful.

The Mummy is actully the ruler of a nation, who worship him as their God-king. The nation is several million strong, and all worship him fanatically, but I wanted him significantly weaker than the Titan, so I made him a Demigod.

Originally posted by U_K.
Depends on your definition of Titan.

I mean there are Monster Manual Titans (Probably weak Quasi-deity equivalents) and Epic Level Handbook Elder Titans (probably weak Lesser Power equivalents) and Greek Titans (who fit well as either Greater Powers or Elder Ones).

I see the Titans as beings who emerged from the wellspring of chaos, created the gods from their own power, then went to war with them (and the Celestials) when the gods attempted to steal the Titans power. That is a large simplification of my view. Essentially the Titans created the Gods, or granted them their Divinity.

My main issue with the Titan is how powerful should he be in accordance with my view,and the same with the mummy (see above).

Originally posted by U_K.

How powerful is this god?

Also, out of curiousity how many PCs are there and what are there levels?

Greater or Elder, also the pantheon head.

There are 5 PCs and one permanent NPC, the average level is 11. It is going to be a very long time before the encounter even the weakest of the enemies I listed.
The PCs are:
Al'Daeris Sevaren Eldessi, Elf Cleric
Ethelos Sharom, Half-elf Ranger
Anastasia von Draego, Human Wizard
Dedrick, son of Vorack, Dwarf Samurai (Complete Warrior)
Nasher Alagondar, Human Paladin
The NPC:
Elenya Var, Half-elf Rogue/Assassin (Ethelos' love interest; she is reformed now )

Originally posted by U_K.

I think the key to any such working relationship between evil forces is going to be power. The strong are going to try and dominate the weak.

There definately seems to be multiple tiers within this evil group.

1. The Titan
2. The Demigod
3. All the others except...
4. The Half-demon Fighter

To me it seems as though the Demigod is the leader, the Half-demon Fighter his henchman and the others slightly subordinate but powerful enough so as not to be ordered about.

The Titan could be the beast the group were trying to free.

So I am not sure if you wanted them all to be fairly equal or if this is just a gathering of long-standing npcs, coming together for a special purpose?

You could always change the Demigod Cleric to a Hunefer (from the ELH) if you wanted them to be fairly equal.

The Titan is definatly the dominator of the group. All of the others are minions, although they like to think of themselves as lesser allies (or equals in the case of the mummy).

They are as you said-
Titan
and his minions:
Mummy God
Ghost, Vampires, and Death Knight
Balor
Half-demon

They are not supposed to be equal, and some are considered lessers and treated so, although all are dangerous. None of them, except the mummy realize the nature of the Titan, or guess the nature of its goals.

Here is the major backstory: Long ago, just after the Titan were bound into their eternal prisons, the multiverse fell into another war, this one between the Gods and the Celestial hosts. A small group of Gods, both good and evil, chaotic and lawful, sought a refuge from this war. They came to one of the Primes and bound themselves to it, also creating a barrier preventing any communication or travel into or out of the plane. This barrier was infused with the power of all the gods, and seemed impenatrable. Several times it has been breached by outside forces, causing two Demon wars.

The Titan was somehow awakened my the massive energies used to create the barrier, and he was contacted by a unknown powerful being from beyond, who told him about the seals and, if he could find them, how to destroy them. In return this being wanted the Titan to search for a powerful artifact.

Together they engineered several breaches (both demon wars), which although unsucessful, allowed the Titan to locate nine of the thirteen seals. Now they are using the current war as a cover to find the remaining seals. The Titan's goal is to escape back into the multiverse and awaken its fellows.

The Titan is cautious of his unknown ally, and believes him to be a powerful fiend.

I have alot more... but I want to see what you think of that first.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi again U_K!

Hey Dark Wolf mate!

The Balor is 27 HD. The Primal Vampire template is the "first" or "first pair" in my case of vampires on a plane or the multiverse, you can see the creative geniuses at Dicefreaks for any of the templates, in the official releases forum. I also use the DF templates on the ghost (eidolon), death knight (death lord) and mummy (transcendant dead).

I'll have to go take a look.

The half-demon fighter is actully part of a half-demon race with 6 HD, then add the 18 Fighter levels. He is the leader of the main armies, and thus his leadership.

Still seems a bit weak compared to the rest. But as you note they are not necessarily meant to be equals.

The Mummy is actully the ruler of a nation, who worship him as their God-king. The nation is several million strong, and all worship him fanatically, but I wanted him significantly weaker than the Titan, so I made him a Demigod.

Well, technically, under the auspices of the IH he would likely be a Lesser Power with that much worship.

Spot on average level for a Lesser Power by the way.

Average ability score for a Lesser Power (before items) is 28.

Going by class, the character would have the stats (again before items or indeed feats/divine abilities) something like this:

Str 42, Dex 28, Con -, Int 28, Wis 42, Cha 28

I see the Titans as beings who emerged from the wellspring of chaos, created the gods from their own power, then went to war with them (and the Celestials) when the gods attempted to steal the Titans power. That is a large simplification of my view. Essentially the Titans created the Gods, or granted them their Divinity.

My main issue with the Titan is how powerful should he be in accordance with my view, and the same with the mummy (see above).

Titan = Elder or Greater Power
Mummy = Lesser Power
Others = Quasi-deities
Half-demon Fighter maybe equal to a weak Hero-deity.

Greater or Elder, also the pantheon head.

Well it seems your Titan will need to be an Elder God if the other deity can call upon a pantheon entire.

I'll have Surtur statted in the IH so you can see just how powerful they are.

Surtur has 150 Hit Dice by the way.

There are 5 PCs and one permanent NPC, the average level is 11. It is going to be a very long time before the encounter even the weakest of the enemies I listed.
The PCs are:
Al'Daeris Sevaren Eldessi, Elf Cleric
Ethelos Sharom, Half-elf Ranger
Anastasia von Draego, Human Wizard
Dedrick, son of Vorack, Dwarf Samurai (Complete Warrior)
Nasher Alagondar, Human Paladin
The NPC:
Elenya Var, Half-elf Rogue/Assassin (Ethelos' love interest; she is reformed now )

Good mix.

The Titan is definatly the dominator of the group. All of the others are minions, although they like to think of themselves as lesser allies (or equals in the case of the mummy).

They are as you said-
Titan
and his minions:
Mummy God
Ghost, Vampires, and Death Knight
Balor
Half-demon

They are not supposed to be equal, and some are considered lessers and treated so, although all are dangerous. None of them, except the mummy realize the nature of the Titan, or guess the nature of its goals.

Its possible, that the Titan is not yet back to full power so soon following its incarceration. So it may only have Greater Power in the short term.

Here is the major backstory: Long ago, just after the Titan were bound into their eternal prisons, the multiverse fell into another war, this one between the Gods and the Celestial hosts. A small group of Gods, both good and evil, chaotic and lawful, sought a refuge from this war. They came to one of the Primes and bound themselves to it, also creating a barrier preventing any communication or travel into or out of the plane. This barrier was infused with the power of all the gods, and seemed impenatrable. Several times it has been breached by outside forces, causing two Demon wars.

The Titan was somehow awakened my the massive energies used to create the barrier, and he was contacted by a unknown powerful being from beyond, who told him about the seals and, if he could find them, how to destroy them. In return this being wanted the Titan to search for a powerful artifact.

Together they engineered several breaches (both demon wars), which although unsucessful, allowed the Titan to locate nine of the thirteen seals. Now they are using the current war as a cover to find the remaining seals. The Titan's goal is to escape back into the multiverse and awaken its fellows.

The Titan is cautious of his unknown ally, and believes him to be a powerful fiend.

I have alot more... but I want to see what you think of that first.

I'm curious, is the unknown ally the demigod, or something else altogether?

 

[Dark Wolf 97]

Hello U_K!

Originally posted by U_K.

Well, technically, under the auspices of the IH he would likely be a Lesser Power with that much worship.

Spot on average level for a Lesser Power by the way.

Average ability score for a Lesser Power (before items) is 28.

Going by class, the character would have the stats (again before items or indeed feats/divine abilities) something like this:

Str 42, Dex 28, Con -, Int 28, Wis 42, Cha 28

Just curious, What is the average ability score for a Greater/Elder God?

As long as the mummy in no way approaches the Titan's power....lesser sounds fine.

Originally posted by U_K.

Well it seems your Titan will need to be an Elder God if the other deity can call upon a pantheon entire.

I'll have Surtur statted in the IH so you can see just how powerful they are.

Surtur has 150 Hit Dice by the way.

Elder God seems sufficient enough to cause worry for a pantheon. How tall is Surtur?

I'm curious, is the unknown ally the demigod, or something else altogether?

Close, the unknown ally is communicating with the Demigod, telling it about the Titan and its secrets. Creating a 'backup' ally of sorts.

Later

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello U_K!

Hiya mate!

Just curious, What is the average ability score for a Greater/Elder God?

42/57

As long as the mummy in no way approaches the Titan's power....lesser sounds fine.

Elder God seems sufficient enough to cause worry for a pantheon. How tall is Surtur?

Well I have him at 300' (since of course as a fan of the Mighty Thor I prefer Surtur to be titanic like he is in the comic, even though they define him as 1000' tall they only represent him as about 300').

http://www.immortalthor.net./bio-surtur.html

However, as an Outsider of course his height and Hit Dice are not relative to one another.

Close, the unknown ally is communicating with the Demigod, telling it about the Titan and its secrets. Creating a 'backup' ally of sorts.

Interesting.