• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

The Immortals Handbook

Status
Not open for further replies.

Essex

First Post
Upper_Krust said:
Hi there Essex! :)

Heya, chief.

Well as I recall the Goa'uld are 'false gods'; that does not inhibit worship though. However I don't see even the most revered Goa'uld having enough worship to make them Demigods. At best most are probably Hero or Quasi deities.

Our thoughts are one. *shakes head* Sorry shouldn't be watching ST:V - Dark Frontier as I type this. I see most of the rank and file Goa'uld as just carriers for the genetic memory, nothing special. The average system lord (Apophis, Heru-Ur, Cronos) as being Quasi-Deity. Ra, Sokar, and Anubis I see as being actually Demi-gods.

1) Ra - he is the head of them, and I had the impression, that before he died, EVERYONE paid him tribute and lip service (except for those like Apophis, who were rebelling against his rule). Also given, that he was the one who started the whole mess, I see him being spiffier.

2) Sokar - *shudder* I actually see him as being a Tainted, Possessed, or Half-Fiend variant of the standard. His eyes glowed RED for crying out loud. He also seemed to have a incredibly large and separate power base for the rest.

3) Anubis - similar story to Sokar (even played by the same actor, how's that for funny?) He also has the advantage of that he Ascended, which I'm treating as Divine Elevation. Being kicked back down, but still obviously more than what he was, I can't see him as anything other than a Demigod.

Essentially it depends on the number of genuine worshippers each Goa'uld has. Its notable that most worlds SG1 ventures to are fairly sparsely populated.

I'm going for they are devotely worshipped by the few thousand Jaffa they have in their service. Then you have the worlds, which sparsely populated, do worship them out of fear (which is good enough for evil deities in D&D worlds).

However, when they ruled on earth its entirely possible they were much more powerful - akin to a full pantheon with Ra as a Greater God etc. However, divorced from the main bulk of their worshippers they are probably now much weaker in that regard.

Actually I'm changing their origin to fit in with a more D&D style cosmology (the gods do ACTUALLY exist). This is gonna be a bit long and probably pointless, so bear with me. Millions of years ago a civilization existed on Earth and rose to great heights in technology AND magic (Ancients anyone?). Well a cosmic crisis spread to our world as the dark Power that some on other plains call Tharizdun began annihiliting the universe and demons and corrupt things spread in his wake.

When the big T reached this plain, the Overpower intervened and helped the other gods imprison him, but doing so cost the Overpower its existence. In its death throes, it did two things: It expelled all non-native creatures from Earth, and then sealed this universe from further intrusion. This dropped the Mana Level down to a fraction of itself and prevented the gods from intervening directly anymore. It also bathed the world in Its power and a handful of beings became imbued with its energy and became Immortals (anyone see Highlander?) They are driven to fight and kill each other until only one remains (and in turn has absorbed all the divine essence, which will result in a rebirth of the Overpower). Because of the beings Lawful and Divine origin, it subconsciously forces a kind of "rules" on the Immortals preventing massive cheating and even dueling on Holy Ground.

Now onto the point of this little dissertation. The Egyptian pantheon wanted to have access to its worshippers again so when they found a crack in the Wall between Worlds, Ra sent a fraction of his essence through to possess a young boy to be his intermediary. Unfortunately something went wrong. Or maybe the boy's innately human nature was corrupted by the sudden power and in turn affected the Avatar. No one knows for certain, but Ra became a tyrant.

During his thousand year reign, he uncovered the Stargate system and went and explored other worlds, finding more Ancient technology and artifacts. He eventually learned the art of genetic engineering, and decided he had a foolproof way to ensure his own survival, even beyond the sarcophagus and new hosts. He created a parasite that contained all his memories and knowledge and designed a Queen-like creature to create them. She took an Egyptian woman and became the "goddess" Hathor. Later, as she learned the myths of "who she was", she created other parasites, not with Ra's identity, but with the other gods of the pantheon, to vex her husband, as well as lesser, servitor Goa'uld who had no identity as gods, so they would be more... pliable.

Ra had her imprisoned for this as he was being challenged now by humans possesed by parasites believing themselves to be Apophis and Anubis and others. Eventually the humans of Earth rose up and drove their oppressors off and these "false gods" retreated through the Stargate. They spread off to other worlds to avoid each other, and over the ages, they rebuilt much of the technology they had uncovered from past civilations and started to build their own private empires amongst the stars, when they eventually started to encounter each other again, and the System Lords were eventually formed, with Ra once again at its head.

*gaspwheezegasp* Okay why the heck did I just write all that out?

Are you mocking me!? :p

My home address is c/o the Cheyenne Mountain Complex. :D

Dude, you've so got to get me on an SG team. I'll do anything, just get me off this divisive, short-sighted mudball....
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Essex said:
Heya, chief.

Hi Essex matey! :)

Essex said:
Our thoughts are one. *shakes head* Sorry shouldn't be watching ST:V - Dark Frontier as I type this.

Wasn't that called the Final Frontier... ;)

Essex said:
I see most of the rank and file Goa'uld as just carriers for the genetic memory, nothing special.

How many Goa'uld are there I wonder? There doesn't seem to be too many of them. I wonder does the SG1 d20 go into any details on the matter?

Essex said:
The average system lord (Apophis, Heru-Ur, Cronos) as being Quasi-Deity. Ra, Sokar, and Anubis I see as being actually Demi-gods.

I certainly wouldn't have any of them above demi-deities thats for sure.

Essex said:
1) Ra - he is the head of them, and I had the impression, that before he died, EVERYONE paid him tribute and lip service (except for those like Apophis, who were rebelling against his rule). Also given, that he was the one who started the whole mess, I see him being spiffier.

Well you would anticipate he was at least paid lip service from all the 'Egyptian-centric' goa'uld before he was destroyed.

Essex said:
2) Sokar - *shudder* I actually see him as being a Tainted, Possessed, or Half-Fiend variant of the standard. His eyes glowed RED for crying out loud. He also seemed to have a incredibly large and separate power base for the rest.

:)

Essex said:
3) Anubis - similar story to Sokar (even played by the same actor, how's that for funny?) He also has the advantage of that he Ascended, which I'm treating as Divine Elevation. Being kicked back down, but still obviously more than what he was, I can't see him as anything other than a Demigod.

Well Anubis is part 'Ancient'. Hopefully we will get more details in the Stargate Atlantis series (or Stargate SG1 Series 8).

I have only seen up to episode 6:20 (6:21 on tv tomorrow) because I am watching it on terrestrial television rather than cable/satellite (even though we have cable I didn't want to watch the shows out of sequence).

Essex said:
I'm going for they are devotely worshipped by the few thousand Jaffa they have in their service. Then you have the worlds, which sparsely populated, do worship them out of fear (which is good enough for evil deities in D&D worlds).

That will be so easy to handle with the IH. You can have the Jaffa as Devoted Worshippers and humans as Typical Worshippers - and then determine worship points from that - peice of cake.

Then you could have the heroes try to target the worshipper base to disaffect Jaffa and the like to destabilize the Lords power.

Essex said:
Actually I'm changing their origin to fit in with a more D&D style cosmology (the gods do ACTUALLY exist). This is gonna be a bit long and probably pointless, so bear with me.

Hey, fire away. I always enjoy a good read and something you post may inspire someone elses campaign.

Essex said:
Millions of years ago a civilization existed on Earth and rose to great heights in technology AND magic (Ancients anyone?). Well a cosmic crisis spread to our world as the dark Power that some on other plains call Tharizdun began annihiliting the universe and demons and corrupt things spread in his wake.

Tharizdun you say, we used him (physcally) in our campaign. He was unleashed and we had to attack him with a fleet of Star Destroyers.

Essex said:
When the big T reached this plain, the Overpower intervened and helped the other gods imprison him, but doing so cost the Overpower its existence.

I always saw his imprisonment as requiring the sacrifice of a parallel 'good' aligned entity.

Essex said:
In its death throes, it did two things: It expelled all non-native creatures from Earth, and then sealed this universe from further intrusion. This dropped the Mana Level down to a fraction of itself and prevented the gods from intervening directly anymore. It also bathed the world in Its power and a handful of beings became imbued with its energy and became Immortals (anyone see Highlander?) They are driven to fight and kill each other until only one remains (and in turn has absorbed all the divine essence, which will result in a rebirth of the Overpower). Because of the beings Lawful and Divine origin, it subconsciously forces a kind of "rules" on the Immortals preventing massive cheating and even dueling on Holy Ground.

In the IH you take their Quintessence rather than their 'Quickening'. ;)

Essex said:
Now onto the point of this little dissertation. The Egyptian pantheon wanted to have access to its worshippers again so when they found a crack in the Wall between Worlds, Ra sent a fraction of his essence through to possess a young boy to be his intermediary. Unfortunately something went wrong. Or maybe the boy's innately human nature was corrupted by the sudden power and in turn affected the Avatar. No one knows for certain, but Ra became a tyrant.

During his thousand year reign, he uncovered the Stargate system and went and explored other worlds, finding more Ancient technology and artifacts. He eventually learned the art of genetic engineering, and decided he had a foolproof way to ensure his own survival, even beyond the sarcophagus and new hosts. He created a parasite that contained all his memories and knowledge and designed a Queen-like creature to create them. She took an Egyptian woman and became the "goddess" Hathor. Later, as she learned the myths of "who she was", she created other parasites, not with Ra's identity, but with the other gods of the pantheon, to vex her husband, as well as lesser, servitor Goa'uld who had no identity as gods, so they would be more... pliable.

Ra had her imprisoned for this as he was being challenged now by humans possesed by parasites believing themselves to be Apophis and Anubis and others. Eventually the humans of Earth rose up and drove their oppressors off and these "false gods" retreated through the Stargate. They spread off to other worlds to avoid each other, and over the ages, they rebuilt much of the technology they had uncovered from past civilations and started to build their own private empires amongst the stars, when they eventually started to encounter each other again, and the System Lords were eventually formed, with Ra once again at its head.

*gaspwheezegasp* Okay why the heck did I just write all that out?

Very interesting - Stargate is of course the perfect setting for all sorts of IH inspired shenanigans.

Essex said:
Dude, you've so got to get me on an SG team. I'll do anything, just get me off this divisive, short-sighted mudball....

I dunno - do you have any specialist skills that could be brought to bear?

We might have a place for you on SG-133. :p
 

Essex

First Post
Wasn't that called the Final Frontier... ;)

You'd be right if I meant Star Trek Five. I meant Star Trek Voyager. :) My bad... I should have been clearer on my acronyms.

How many Goa'uld are there I wonder? There doesn't seem to be too many of them. I wonder does the SG1 d20 go into any details on the matter?

Depends on which source you use. According to the movie, Ra was the only one, and he looked like a white, glowing Grey with teeth. The TV series butchered the original movie, and in some ways made it better, but the Continuity Side of me wishes they had left some of the movie mythos intact.

I certainly wouldn't have any of them above demi-deities thats for sure.

Oh I agree 100%. I was just stating the three I thought WOULD hve DemiGod status. I want them killable by decent-level PCs with boatloads of modern technology, which is possible, given their physical host requirements and the fact that the Low Mana Zone of this universe greatly limits their divine abilities.

Well you would anticipate he was at least paid lip service from all the 'Egyptian-centric' goa'uld before he was destroyed.

Exactly. He started off as a powerful Avatar, and with the added worship, first on Earth, and later by all the other slave races, Jaffa, and loyal Goa'uld, he managed to acquire and maintain Demigod status.

Well Anubis is part 'Ancient'. Hopefully we will get more details in the Stargate Atlantis series (or Stargate SG1 Series 8).

Actually, Ascended Daniel's story was that somehow Anubis' host Ascended with the symbiote inside. The others stopped this in mid process and cast him back down, and now he's stuck in between states. honestly there is little differents between the Ancients and the Ascended other than the Ancients did it first, and have more spiffy knowledge.

I have only seen up to episode 6:20 (6:21 on tv tomorrow) because I am watching it on terrestrial television rather than cable/satellite (even though we have cable I didn't want to watch the shows out of sequence).

*nods* Don't blame you. I missed Season 6, but after watching Seasons 1 - 5 on the SciFi chan Monday night rerun block, I decided to hop in on the Season 6 finale and have been watching steady since. Add in that I hit a spoiler website to fill in my gaps, and I'm a Gater or whatever they call us SG obsessed geeks. :)

That will be so easy to handle with the IH. You can have the Jaffa as Devoted Worshippers and humans as Typical Worshippers - and then determine worship points from that - peice of cake.

COOL! I've been waiting for your book for 3-4 years now, ever since you started posting on Eric Noah's boards. I'm all a-tingle with anticipation.
Then you could have the heroes try to target the worshipper base to disaffect Jaffa and the like to destabilize the Lords power.

In the IH you take their Quintessence rather than their 'Quickening'. ;)

Yup, don't wanna violate those copyrights...

Very interesting - Stargate is of course the perfect setting for all sorts of IH inspired shenanigans.

I'm doing such an odd origin for the Goa'uld in this universe because i wanted to merge the Stargate setting into a Modern Fantasy game. My only trouble now is that I have no idea what to do about the Asgard. If used as presented, the invalidate the entire Norse pantheon since according to them, the legends were all based off their people as a cover story to primitive cultures.

I dunno - do you have any specialist skills that could be brought to bear?

We might have a place for you on SG-133. :p

Hmmm I've got O'neill's wit and irreverence, Daniel's obsession with history, and a knack for insane schemes that make Captain Kirk look like a cautious individual...
 
Last edited:

Hi Essex mate! :)

Essex said:
You'd be right if I meant Star Trek Five. I meant Star Trek Voyager. :) My bad... I should have been clearer on my acronyms.

Indeed, shame on you. :p

Essex said:
Depends on which source you use. According to the movie, Ra was the only one, and he looked like a white, glowing Grey with teeth. The TV series butchered the original movie, and in some ways made it better, but the Continuity Side of me wishes they had left some of the movie mythos intact.

Well I think having multiple Goa'uld was a good decision.

Essex said:
Oh I agree 100%. I was just stating the three I thought WOULD hve DemiGod status. I want them killable by decent-level PCs with boatloads of modern technology, which is possible, given their physical host requirements and the fact that the Low Mana Zone of this universe greatly limits their divine abilities.

Perhaps this Low Mana Zone (Low Magic Factor) could be linked to a High Reality Factor, which means that modern weaponry deals more damage than as prescribed by d20 Modern.

Essex said:
Exactly. He started off as a powerful Avatar, and with the added worship, first on Earth, and later by all the other slave races, Jaffa, and loyal Goa'uld, he managed to acquire and maintain Demigod status.

Thats plausible.

Essex said:
Actually, Ascended Daniel's story was that somehow Anubis' host Ascended with the symbiote inside. The others stopped this in mid process and cast him back down, and now he's stuck in between states. honestly there is little differents between the Ancients and the Ascended other than the Ancients did it first, and have more spiffy knowledge.

:D

Essex said:
*nods* Don't blame you. I missed Season 6, but after watching Seasons 1 - 5 on the SciFi chan Monday night rerun block, I decided to hop in on the Season 6 finale and have been watching steady since. Add in that I hit a spoiler website to fill in my gaps, and I'm a Gater or whatever they call us SG obsessed geeks. :)

Gater actually sounds pretty cool - too cool for geeks anyway. :p

Essex said:
COOL! I've been waiting for your book for 3-4 years now, ever since you started posting on Eric Noah's boards.

Okay, okay, don't remind me how long its been. :eek:

Essex said:
I'm all a-tingle with anticipation.

:)

Essex said:
Yup, don't wanna violate those copyrights...

Indeed. Though quintessence actually makes more sense than quickening.

Essex said:
I'm doing such an odd origin for the Goa'uld in this universe because i wanted to merge the Stargate setting into a Modern Fantasy game. My only trouble now is that I have no idea what to do about the Asgard. If used as presented, the invalidate the entire Norse pantheon since according to them, the legends were all based off their people as a cover story to primitive cultures.

Well you could still use the Norse Pantheon, but just have them walk about in 'hard light' hologram suits or somesuch.

Essex said:
Hmmm I've got O'neill's wit and irreverence, Daniel's obsession with history, and a knack for insane schemes that make Captain Kirk look like a cautious individual...

It sounds to me like you are no Taree at all! :D
 

Hmmm, things seem to be slowing up, so its time for me to think of a question to annoy the Krust.

In music I always find it interesting to see what bands are influenced but what previous bands, and therefore I'd be interested in knowing, the Krust, anywhere you took influence on from in your work on the IH? Certain philosphies or schools of belief? Particularly any of the eastern traditions?
 

Hi Bjorn mate! :)

Revenge of the Bjorn said:
Hmmm, things seem to be slowing up, so its time for me to think of a question to annoy the Krust.

In music I always find it interesting to see what bands are influenced but what previous bands, and therefore I'd be interested in knowing, the Krust, anywhere you took influence on from in your work on the IH? Certain philosphies or schools of belief? Particularly any of the eastern traditions?

Well the simple answer is 'the occult' in general. Which pretty much encompasses any mechanics of mythology, magic and so forth.

So thats been my main inspiration in determining the philosophy of the book.
 

S'mon

Legend
Upper_Krust said:
Hi Bjorn mate! :)
Well the simple answer is 'the occult' in general. Which pretty much encompasses any mechanics of mythology, magic and so forth.

So thats been my main inspiration in determining the philosophy of the book.

Hi Craig/UK - I remember you asked me what were my inspirations when I created the original Worship Points System (hmm, I feel like Dave arneson to UK's Gary Gygax!) :cool: - my answer was that I wanted a measurement of deity power that tied in with the 1e AD&D XP & GP system, ie 1 Worship Point (divinity) was intended to be equivalent to 1 XP (experience) or 1gp (wealth), and they were interchangeable inasmuch as you could spend WPs to do the same kind of stuff you can do with gps, like make magic items, or XPs, like make items, cast certain powerful spells & rituals, etc.

The Worship Points System as conceived by me uses the 'Ascending' or 'Democratic' theory of power, where power derives fundamentally from the lowest element, the belief of the ordinary, mundane human being. This belief-energy powers the multiverse, creates and empowers the gods, etc. It draws from democratic-influenced mythologies such as that of the Greeks, where the gods clearly draw power from their worshippers - power that enables them to become mightier than Elder entities such as the Titans.

The opposing theory of power (whether magical or political) is the 'Descending' or 'Hierarchic' theory, where power flows downwards from powerful beings with an a-priori divine existence to their lesser minions. This theory fits with most Judaeo-Christian doctrine and is exemplified in the works of JRR Tolkien - Iluvatar is the pre-existing divinity from which all power flows, He empowers lower levels down the chain. So Melkor initially receives the largest lump of divine power, but spends so much of it on empowering his minions that he eventually becomes weaker than the Valar who have hoarded theirs more carefully. The OD&D Immortals system also seems closer to the Hierarchic approach.

The WPS as it stands could be adapted to a Hierarchic universe like Middle Earth, in which case PC deities would receive WPs from their patron deities as a reward for good performance, possibly receiving promotions from on-high to ascend the slippery slope of the divine hierarchy. I think the Democratic WPS system is more suitable for most campaigns, it enables PCs to potentially achieve divinity on their own terms without need for a divine patron (though such is always useful!) and means their power is not limited to whatever their superiors are willing to grant them.
 

ZosKia

First Post
Upper_Krust said:
Well the simple answer is 'the occult' in general. Which pretty much encompasses any mechanics of mythology, magic and so forth.

So thats been my main inspiration in determining the philosophy of the book.

Hi Craig,
Any particular Occult philosophies or authors?
 

S'mon said:
Hi Craig/UK

Hey S'mon! :)

S'mon said:
- I remember you asked me what were my inspirations when I created the original Worship Points System (hmm, I feel like Dave arneson to UK's Gary Gygax!) :cool:

:D

S'mon said:
- my answer was that I wanted a measurement of deity power that tied in with the 1e AD&D XP & GP system, ie 1 Worship Point (divinity) was intended to be equivalent to 1 XP (experience) or 1gp (wealth), and they were interchangeable inasmuch as you could spend WPs to do the same kind of stuff you can do with gps, like make magic items, or XPs, like make items, cast certain powerful spells & rituals, etc.

Indeed. This still applies to the IH at a basic level.

S'mon said:
The Worship Points System as conceived by me uses the 'Ascending' or 'Democratic' theory of power, where power derives fundamentally from the lowest element, the belief of the ordinary, mundane human being. This belief-energy powers the multiverse, creates and empowers the gods, etc. It draws from democratic-influenced mythologies such as that of the Greeks, where the gods clearly draw power from their worshippers - power that enables them to become mightier than Elder entities such as the Titans.

The opposing theory of power (whether magical or political) is the 'Descending' or 'Hierarchic' theory, where power flows downwards from powerful beings with an a-priori divine existence to their lesser minions. This theory fits with most Judaeo-Christian doctrine and is exemplified in the works of JRR Tolkien - Iluvatar is the pre-existing divinity from which all power flows, He empowers lower levels down the chain. So Melkor initially receives the largest lump of divine power, but spends so much of it on empowering his minions that he eventually becomes weaker than the Valar who have hoarded theirs more carefully. The OD&D Immortals system also seems closer to the Hierarchic approach.

The WPS as it stands could be adapted to a Hierarchic universe like Middle Earth, in which case PC deities would receive WPs from their patron deities as a reward for good performance, possibly receiving promotions from on-high to ascend the slippery slope of the divine hierarchy. I think the Democratic WPS system is more suitable for most campaigns, it enables PCs to potentially achieve divinity on their own terms without need for a divine patron (though such is always useful!) and means their power is not limited to whatever their superiors are willing to grant them.

Fortunately I have all bases covered within the IH, including 'quickening' style 'Hierarchic' transferences. So the Hierarchic (Power) approach meshes seemlessly with the Democratic (Glory) approach. Of course those are not the only approaches you can take. ;)
 

ZosKia said:
Hi Craig,

Hey Andrew! :)

ZosKia said:
Any particular Occult philosophies or authors?

Probably all of them at one stage or another. :D

Personally though I get more out of condensed; focused bodies of work, than vague philosophical diatribes that can go off on a tangent.

So things like encyclopedias or overarching studies of the subject as a whole are more to my tastes.

The two best I have found are:

Fred Gettings: Encyclopedia of the Occult

and

Louis Stewart: Life Forces (a Contemporary Guide to the Cult and Occult).

Anyone interested in the subject should pick both these up if they get the chance.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top