The Immortals Handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Hi CRGreathouse mate!

Of the monsters in the ELH, I use 35 out of 64*, or 55%. As long as I use at least 38 of your monsters it'll be more useful to me than the ELH.

I don't actually like any of the repeated monsters, so they're in the 'useless' part of the ELH for me.

Edit: I use 77% of the Legends of Avadnu monsters, but I'm more likely to use their templates on my own creatures than the ELH templates -- Bygone and Scion of Krug vs. Pseudonatural and Paragon?

* Including sample template creatures

Well I am hoping you will find 100% of the monsters interesting and therefore plan to use all of them.

I must admit I do like some of the ideas in the Legends of Avadnu monsters - the Bygone Template idea for one.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey S'mon and Krust!

Hey you too!

You've never seen me with my infinity gauntlet on. . In all seriousness, it is physically possible.

Perhaps a Hecatonchiere using a Convergent Fist Divine Ability striking the planet like the Death Star Superlaser.

A rules question though -- can you add more to your power attack than your base strength bonus? I think the answer is no, even if your BAB would allow it, but I'm not 100% certain.

Already been answered this.

I'm more interested in the scaling parameters themselves than actually playing such a character, but if the event is a logical possibility, my feeling is that it should be explainable within the context of the rules. This is one of the major reasons why Krust's IH project is so interesting.

Planetary hit points (using d20 Modern rules) isn't very much.

That said, I must admit I'm more of a rues-lite player and DM. I just want everything to make sense.

Me too.

My feeling is that the IH will cover all of the bases on both fronts (I'll probably purchase the thing twice in any event to repay UK for all of the questions he has answered).

Now, now. Stop that foolish talk. Once will be enough...unless you are really really rich of course in which case whaddya mean only twice.

On that note S'mon, I recently read Dan Brown's "Angels and Demons." I'm normally not into this kind of book (my mother-in-law insisted that I read it) but the lead "bad guy" Janus, the leader of the Illuminati, is a compelling character -- I could provide a homebrew outline of stats if it would be helpful. I'm wondering what insights you and Krust would be willing to share on how to run a campaign of this sort (strategy big-time over force) and what thoughts you may have on up-scaling this "Janus" character (maybe even beyond greater god) without losing the flavor of subterfuge.

Thanks in advance guys.

Sufficed to say I'll be addressing the Illuminati in the IH.

 

[Anabstercorian]

Perhaps a Hecatonchiere using a Convergent Fist Divine Ability striking the planet like the Death Star Superlaser.

Dude.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Alzrius mate!

To be fair, a significantly large number of good guy/bad guy shows use this method, just on a much smaller power scale.

I wasn't knocking DBZ - I'm actually a fan of it!

I find it interesting to hear you say that, since DBZ is the IH of anime. Simply put, no other show deals (at least not as the main cast) with characters who have that level of power - most others that I've seen stop at characters who can crack a planet, if not before. I found it refreshing to see a show that pushed the envelope so much farther. The fact that it needed that many episodes to resolve the larger fights seemed only right because of that - you can't do justice to that much power in a single 24-minute episode.

He he!

I was just looking at a DBZ site and if we convert Power Ratings into EXP then the very top guys just make it over 1000th-level by the end.

http://www.myfavoritegames.com/dragonball-z/Info/Dragonball-Z-PowerLevels.htm

eg. Uub (500,000,000 EXP) = 1000th-level

eg. Android 20 (5,000,000 EXP) = 100th-level

Cell ranges from 300th to 500th-level

Frieza ranges from 32nd-level to 154th-level (Perfect Frieza)

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Fieari mate!

Well, FLCL (Furi Kuri, Fooly Kooly, whatever they're calling it now) had more powerful characters... Atomsk the Pirate King is an energy being so powerful that he "steals entire star systems." He effortlessly defeats war machines that would flatten the entire planet in the final episode, and that fight scene with guitar vs. guitar was awesome... DBZ levels of epicness with none of the simplemindedness.

FLCL is one of the weirdest anime I've seen, and one I have DEEP respect for. It's revealing of the plot works like this:

It displays situation A. To understand A, you must understand B, which is displayed next, but not explained. To understand B, you must understand C, which is displayed next, but not explained. To understand C... and so on. You can't understand ANY of what's going on until the very final piece is given to you, and then it all cascades downwards causing everything to make sense. At the same time, it's wonderfully allegorical and chock full of literary meaning. I love that show.

I'll have to see if one of my friends can *cough* download an episode. Sounds interesting.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey S'mon!

Likewise I love the idea of matching D&D-scaled gods and dragons against realistically-scaled technological weaponry

I know...Thrins still got the scars*.

*Emotional ones that is, obviously he healed himself of the physical damage.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey S'mon!

Oh BTW it's worth mentioning that Thrin's 1e stats listed in the IH page are his official GM-authorised stats, but the 3e stats stats for Thrin that Craig's planning to include in the published IH will be his own unofficial interpretation developed in line with the IH rules and to fit with the deity power levels in 3e D&DG, we've discussed Thrin's Level (I think he gets 80 levels total in 3e) but AFAIK he doesn't plan to have the whole stat block authorised by me pre-publication.

I would have to wait to see the stats before I decided whether those would be the stats I'd use for Thrin were he to appear in my campaign under 3e rules

What am I...chopped liver!? Have a little faith dude. This is me remember.

(which is not something I'm planning to happen in the near future, but it's always possible someone might attack him in Asgard or something!)

But are they ready for the Steel Colossi 3.5 stats! Ha ha! Invade Asgard at your peril fools!

At the close of our 1e/2e campaign play, Thrin was a Lesser power with a good way to go before he made the next divine rank (Greater God, as per the 1e AD&D ranking system - no Intermediates back then); in combat ability he was superior to his patron Tyr, but still inferior to Odin and Thor (all 3 Greater Gods in 1e L&L), I'd expect his 3e stats to reflect that.

Thrin was equal sixth best fighter in the multiverse as I recall.

Thor, Zeus, Odin, Surtur and Mabelode were the only ones Thrin was wary of facing off against one on one (Outside Overgods and the like naturally).

Vanya *spits* was probably on a par with Thrin.

I should have never listed to Fergus, "Yeah you can conquer Thyatis...easy." What was I thinking. Even then the be-atch got lucky.

 

[Alzrius]

Well, FLCL (Furi Kuri, Fooly Kooly, whatever they're calling it now) had more powerful characters... Atomsk the Pirate King is an energy being so powerful that he "steals entire star systems."

I haven't had a chance to see FLCL yet, but though it sounds like a great anime, it doesn't sound like anything more powerful. I'm not certain what constitutes "stealing" a star system, but destroying one would certainly be equal or greater effort, and Cell is able to do that in one shot (in his Super Perfect state). Brolli, likewise, destroyed an entire galaxy.

He effortlessly defeats war machines that would flatten the entire planet in the final episode, and that fight scene with guitar vs. guitar was awesome... DBZ levels of epicness with none of the simplemindedness.

Any major combative cast member after the initial Saiyan saga in DBZ can effortlessly crush planets, so that's no real mean feat right there. Likewise, anything that condenses that much power into a single episode seems like it would indeed be simpleminded, simply because it underrepresents that level of strength. As I said, DBZ's strong point is the high number of episodes for a single battle.

 

[Alzrius]

I was just looking at a DBZ site and if we convert Power Ratings into EXP then the very top guys just make it over 1000th-level by the end.

http://www.myfavoritegames.com/dragonball-z/Info/Dragonball-Z-PowerLevels.htm

eg. Uub (500,000,000 EXP) = 1000th-level

eg. Android 20 (5,000,000 EXP) = 100th-level

Cell ranges from 300th to 500th-level

Frieza ranges from 32nd-level to 154th-level (Perfect Frieza)

I'll leave out the obligatory mentions of how anything past the Freeza saga is complete fan guestimation (and, truth to tell, some of the power levels prior to then seem to be guestimates too, such as King Cold's power level).

That said, does "perfect" Freeza mean his final form at 100% power, or him as a cyborg, since he was even more powerful then?

Likewise, though DBGT is nowhere near as good as DB and DBZ, it does push the envelope forward on power levels. Where would you rank Baby (in his multiple developments and possessions), Android Super 17, and the evil Shenrons (particularly Ishenron)?

 

[Fieari]

Well, the point of FLCL isn't the battles, which are basically background material to the show, but it's implied that "Stealing Star Systems" means picking them up, putting them in your pocket, and walking away nonchalantly.