The Immortals Handbook

[Planesdragon]

eg. The Flesh Golem deals more damage with a 1-handed punch than if it were wielding a greatsword in its hand (1-Handed because its Large)!!!

So, a semisoft head-sized ball of flesh is more lethal than a sharp sword?

I say re-do the golem "fist" base damage, and make up the rest in strength. To keep their to-hit in the same range, have the golems automatically power-attack.

 

[Knight Otu]

I was typing up the Golem entries when I noticed that the default Base Damage for Golems is bizarrely high.

eg. The Flesh Golem deals more damage with a 1-handed punch than if it were wielding a greatsword in its hand (1-Handed because its Large)!!!

The slam attack of a flesh golem deals 2d8 points of damage as its base.
A golem-sized one-handed melee weapon will at most be:
Simple: 2d6 (morningstar, heavy mace; 1d8 base damage at medium)
Martial: 2d6 (quite a few, with a few bonuses)
Exotic: 2d8 (bastard sword and dwarven waraxe).
The damage is high, but not absurdly high when compared this way. Of course, it gets worse with the more powerful golems. That's where it gets bizarre (2d10 base damage!)

 

[Verequus]

The "you know" and were meant to show that while I understand that the argument doesn't follow RW physics and there's no need for it to work one way or another in the game, I still 'feel' they should do more damage. YMMV.

Sorry for the misinterpretation. :-(

 

[Zoatebix]

Hey U_K -
Your system gets some good press from Piratecat here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=104523
-George

Now I go back to reading the rest of that thread...
-George

 

[Anabstercorian]

Don't think of it as a punch, think of it as a Slam - a great lashing blow with the whole of the body. Why do you think they only get one per round?

 

[Knight Otu]

Uhm, Anab, most golems get 2 slam attacks on a full attack...

 

[Anabstercorian]

*finger wiggle* This is not the illithid you're looking for.

 

[Zoatebix]

I think a slam is a very different beast than an unarmed strike. An unarmed striker has to worry about injuring himself with his own attack and uses technique to minimize the risk of self-injury or self-infliction of pain while maximizing the damage done to the enemy. A slammer doesn't have to worry about self-inflicted injury because of their supernatural composition, protection, and/or abilities.

At least, that seems like a reasonable division to me. Supernatural slammers like golems and vampires have less fear of Newton's 3rd law - they're not going to hurt themselves no matter what.
-George

Edit: It's kind of like how Thai kickboxers will kill the nerves in their shins (by repeatedly hitting a tree, I think) before a match. This opens an interesting line of martial arts feats that I haven't seen elsewhere - a power-attack like feat for unarmed strikers: Minimum STR 15, you do 1 bonus damage for every point of damage you decide to inflict on youself, up to your BAB. This bonus damage can stack with the damage from power attack... Cool!
-George

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

Quite a few replies on this point.

Its pretty easy to see the discrepancy with regards the Flesh Golem. However the lines start to blur whenever you are dealing with Stone, Iron or better.

What I have done is tied density (perfectly I might add) into strength...by the way the Neutronium Golem has Strength 329.

Is the fist of an Iron Golem (for instance) as damaging as if it were carrying an iron greatsword (one handed). Personally I don't think so, the extra length of the weapon will provide extra momentum and through that extra damage. Think about the difference between a heavy mailed fist and a mace.

The second fly in the ointment is that some golems 'do' actually wield weapons built into their make-up. However this is not the default approach.

I have to admit I am still torn as to the best way to do this. It only really matters to the Force and Diamond Golems in the Bestiary as the Mercury Golem automatically gets the higher bonus because it can morph its slams into weapons and I guarantee you won't notice it for the Orichalcum or Neutronium Golems even if I have the lower damage in effect.

By the way - thanks for the link Zoatebix. I'm happy to see Piratecat and others getting a lot out of my work in Grim Tales.

 

[historian]

The Neutronium and Orichalcum golems sound awfully cool.

What I have done is tied density (perfectly I might add) into strength...by the way the Neutronium Golem has Strength 329.

Wow -- that thing could take out a greater deity w/one slam.



What kind of CR does this thing have?