The Immortals Handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Hi guys!

I could have replied last night but these message boards are very slow for me during the evenings.

Regarding google (or any other search engine) I think they are the least of my concerns at the moment.

In reply to Fieari's point about giving out unfinished work, that seems a touch unprofessional in my opinion. I'm not sure I like the idea. But I'll think about it.

*gets back to work*

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

I am wondering if I can get a second opinion on certain words and whether they would be copyright protected or not.

1) Baernodaemons (as in Baernoloths, although I don't want to mention that word).
2) Altrodaemons (as above)
3) Demodand (not Gehreleth)
4) The Wasting Tower (as in the place the Daemons rule Hades from)
5) Balrogs (I'd like to use something like this for the name of Chaotic Evil Infernals).

None of these are detailed, simply referenced once or twice. I'm just wondering which I'll have to change. Balrog is perhaps a given, but I am wondering if theres something similar...but different.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Hi all!

I am wondering if I can get a second opinion on certain words and whether they would be copyright protected or not.

1) Baernodaemons (as in Baernoloths, although I don't want to mention that word).
2) Altrodaemons (as above)
3) Demodand (not Gehreleth)
4) The Wasting Tower (as in the place the Daemons rule Hades from)
5) Balrogs (I'd like to use something like this for the name of Chaotic Evil Infernals).

None of these are detailed, simply referenced once or twice. I'm just wondering which I'll have to change. Balrog is perhaps a given, but I am wondering if theres something similar...but different.

My (nonlegal, nonlawyer) advice:

Don't mention balrogs. I know that balors were given that name after problems with Tolkien Estates (they were formerly balrogs).

For the others, I can't speak. I imagine you're fine, as long as you're not copying out the WotC stories behind these -- since the references are just in passing, this shouldn't be a problem. But frankly, I don't know that there's a benefit to refering to the stilted cosmology WotC uses; I can't stand it.

 

[Fieari]

As my players are steadily rising in power (not actually NEEDING the book yet, but I'm getting antsy... I'll be needing to show the players more details about the upper eschalons of power well before they actually obtain anything like it) I've been plotting out things for upcomming sessions, and I was thinking about a staple of fantasy and religion...

Prophesies. Infallible prohpesies.

Since I'm personally a big advocate for "Free Will" and "Anti-Predestination", I don't like the concept of a fixed path that the prophesier is seeing down. Besides, actually taking a look at distant events couldn't account for the kinds of prophesies that become famous and are used to such great effect in so much fiction... they're so vague that anyone looking at the ACTUAL event is probably going to have to really stretch to apply it to the words that were used.

So I was thinking, instead of a prophesy being a -prediction-... why not make it something a little more proactive. And I don't mean by forcing an event in the future to take place, I mean by preventing CONTRARY events from taking place. In other words, with regards to the "trousers of time", all branches of the timeline* that directly CONTRADICT the prophesy made are removed from the realm of possibilities.

*Time flowchart? Time cartesian co-ordinate system?

So by this method, I was thinking of how to word such an ability as a spell. I was also thinking 9th level spell, but really, this kind of wide reaching spell really needs to go epic, and not having Krust's epic magic rules I can't really place the level it needs to be... anyway.

PROPHESY (Divination?)
Level: ???
Components: V, S, (F? DF?), XP
Casting Time: ???
Range:
Target: The Universe
Duration: Instantaneous

The caster speaks a single declarative sentence in the future tense. The sentence may not mention a specific time, such as "tommorow at dawn".

The laws of the universe are ammended such that any action anyone or anything may attempt that renders the sentence impossible fails. As long as there is the remotest chance that the sentence could still be fufilled sometime in the future, this spell has no effect on the attempted action. As soon as the prophesy is fufilled, all effects of the spell end.

If another prophesy is made in the future that contradicts a current prophesy, the current prophesy may make a will save as if it were the caster who made the prophesy at the time the prophesy was made.

XP Cost: For every proper noun mentioned in the prophesy, the caster must expend 1,000 xp. Proper nouns include specific locations and people. Generic dates, locations, and people, such as "when the moon turns red", "at the shadow of 'the mountain'", or "a hero will arise" do not incur this cost.

What do you guys think?

(I'm posting in this thread lacking an Immortal's Forum where this might have been better placed)

 

[Baronovan]

Hi all!

I am wondering if I can get a second opinion on certain words and whether they would be copyright protected or not.

1) Baernodaemons (as in Baernoloths, although I don't want to mention that word).
2) Altrodaemons (as above)
3) Demodand (not Gehreleth)
4) The Wasting Tower (as in the place the Daemons rule Hades from)
5) Balrogs (I'd like to use something like this for the name of Chaotic Evil Infernals).

None of these are detailed, simply referenced once or twice. I'm just wondering which I'll have to change. Balrog is perhaps a given, but I am wondering if theres something similar...but different.

Hey, U_K. I think #1-3 should be okay. Should be. The Wasting Tower might be protected (since I've never seen it elsewhere), but Balrog might be open territory for you. Consider the Balrog mech from Battletech (IIRC), the Balrog demon miniature from Ral Partha, Balrog the boxer from Street Fighter II... I doubt all of these were licensed from Tolkien's estate. Now, in the context you want to use it the word might be a bit risky, but I wouldn't think so. Remember that the Balrogs were a breed or a species of demon-beast, not a proper noun. If you were to use the word "Gothmog", then you'd have some trouble. I don't have to ask Chris Tolkien if I can make an "Elf"... I could see "balrog" falling under the same classification, legally.

 

[historian]

Hey U.K.

I am wondering if I can get a second opinion on certain words and whether they would be copyright protected or not.

I wish that I had practice expertise (or even experience) in copyright. Unfortunately I don't. If I did I would gladly give you a definitive answer to your question on a pro bono basis (provided that I could do so without running afoul of any rule, regulation, law, etc.) as I suspect it could be handled in relatively short order.

As it stands, the most that I could offer you is a lay (and explicitly non-legal) observation or two. If you can find the means to retain a legal professional with copyright expertise, I think it would be a good idea. Of course, in the real world, legal service doesn't always fit with the resources available.

All that being said, I have a couple of observations that I would offer. These are not intended as legal advice, but are merely my lay thoughts on some of what I might be thinking if I were in your position:

1. Material that may have previously been subject to copyright protection may no longer be (although I have no reason to believe that this would apply in this situation).

2. It might be risky to conclude that, because we have seen material referenced over a variety of sources, that it is in the public domain or otherwise not subject to copyright protection. It may well be that non-copyright owners are using material pursuant to a licensing fee or some other arrangement. Additionally, another publisher might be using material unlawfully.

Well, that's about all that I have in the way of lay observation.

You might find it helpful to visit the following site:
http://www.findlaw.com/

I can't speak to the quality of materials, but it was popular when I was in law school.

Good luck dude. I'm more than happy to freely help you in any way that I can. If it would be helpful I'll contact you by e-mail.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi CRGreathouse mate!

My (nonlegal, nonlawyer) advice:

Don't mention balrogs. I know that balors were given that name after problems with Tolkien Estates (they were formerly balrogs).

Yes, I have double checked and the word is unfortunately copyrighted.

I actually just wanted to mention that Balrog was the name of the Chaotic Evil Infernals (to go along with the Neutral Evil Necrodaemons and Lawful Evil Lucifuges).

Actually I have just found another word for them, no worries.

For the others, I can't speak. I imagine you're fine, as long as you're not copying out the WotC stories behind these -- since the references are just in passing, this shouldn't be a problem.

Well hopefully I'll get away with it. I think Baernodaemons and Altrodaemons will be okay, I'm not yet convinced about Demodand, and I am wary of the Wasting Tower.

When discussing relevant hierarchies I mention the above names and how they fit into the mix.

I also created my own origin for the Wasting Tower, which is a short paragraph. The Tower is relevant in that instead of ruling layers or planes, the Daemons might rule levels of the tower instead.

But frankly, I don't know that there's a benefit to refering to the stilted cosmology WotC uses; I can't stand it.

Well I prefer to concern myself with dimensional matters rather than merely planar matters. However, I did want a brief examination of the planes to explain the nomenclature for various ranks of power in the planes. So for Brood, Daemons, Demons and Devils I outline how such hierarchies could work with examples. Of course individuals can use this discourse and apply that to their own cosmology.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Fieari mate!

...word of warning the boards are getting really slow for me around this time and I may not get replying to the other posts until tonight.

Anyway, I digress...

As my players are steadily rising in power (not actually NEEDING the book yet, but I'm getting antsy... I'll be needing to show the players more details about the upper eschalons of power well before they actually obtain anything like it)

I'm on it.

I've been plotting out things for upcomming sessions, and I was thinking about a staple of fantasy and religion...

Prophesies. Infallible prohpesies.

*SNIP*

Time Travel measured in rounds is easy to accomodate because you can always reset the clock without too much damage to the flow of the campaign.

However, what you are suggesting is slightly trickier. However, I actually have a spell called Web of Fate in the Grimoire which lets you bend chance to your will. I suppose in many ways your idea could be a sort of indirect version of that spell (perhaps this version can't have anything to do with the caster).

 

[CRGreathouse]

Well hopefully I'll get away with it. I think Baernodaemons and Altrodaemons will be okay, I'm not yet convinced about Demodand, and I am wary of the Wasting Tower.

"Demodand" was a TSR alteration of "deodand", probably based on Vance's The Dying Earth (in which it is an evil creature).

Dictionary definition:
Deodand: A personal chattel which had caused the death of a person, and for that reason was given to God, that is, forfeited to the crown, to be applied to pious uses, and distributed in alms by the high almoner. Thus, if a cart ran over a man and killed him, it was forfeited as a deodand.

 

[Anabstercorian]

Anabstercorian shovels a puppy in to the furnace. "I've got a whole bag of these! One every day till the book is released! After Christmas, it'll get even worse."