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D&D 4E The Indispensable 4e

hafrogman

Adventurer
I love 4e's treatment of damage reduction. It maintains more flavor than 'silver' being completely overwritten by +1 weapons without leading to the proliferation of different weapon materials.

And even when characters don't have the correct material, it allows all characters to feel like they're contributing to such an enemy instead of only greatweapon fighters being able to deliver strong enough blows to count at all.
 

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Second Winds
The Warlord Concept
Complete DM Info provided for Monsters
Rituals (Spells and Rituals are two different things, even though I think the mechanics involved needs a big clean up)
The Minor Action

They are the things I would like to see in 5e.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
 

Zustiur

Explorer
Move/Minor/Standard/Free
It's simple; It works, and it gets rid of the god forsaken 'full round' actions.

Monster stat blocks
Again, they're simple and they work. I'm convinced that they're one of the contributing factors towards the quick prep.

I'd echo the Quick Prep element, but I've not DMed 4E to really experience it.
 

Nyronus

First Post
I agree with a lot of the things in this thread, but just to throw my hat in behind an underdog: healing surges.

Not necessarily them or their terminology baggage, but what they represent: a reserve a heroic toughness and willpower which allowed the PCs to carry on fighting. The hero getting up despite being beaten down. The warrior standing in the pass, fighting on and on despite his wounds and fatigue. These are narrative concepts I really like and healing surges are what allows you to do them so well in 4E. I think their far to good an idea to throw away all to the great burning strawman of "What do you mean a fighter can 'just heal?'"

Better presentation? Yeah, I could go for that. Is it going to happen? I doubt it.
 


I agree with a lot of the things in this thread, but just to throw my hat in behind an underdog: healing surges.

Not necessarily them or their terminology baggage, but what they represent: a reserve a heroic toughness and willpower which allowed the PCs to carry on fighting. The hero getting up despite being beaten down. The warrior standing in the pass, fighting on and on despite his wounds and fatigue. These are narrative concepts I really like and healing surges are what allows you to do them so well in 4E. I think their far to good an idea to throw away all to the great burning strawman of "What do you mean a fighter can 'just heal?'"

Better presentation? Yeah, I could go for that. Is it going to happen? I doubt it.

It sounds more like you're talking about a character's "Second Wind". Healing surges were more a limit on how much total healing a character could receive in a day (a healing potion presumably wouldn't work on a fighter who had already spent all his healing surges that day).

As to the original post, I would echo the person upthread who mentioned the action economy: standard/minor/move.

I also feel that the four defenses structure should be kept, rather than rolling a second time for fort/ref/will saves.
 

Nyronus

First Post
It sounds more like you're talking about a character's "Second Wind". Healing surges were more a limit on how much total healing a character could receive in a day (a healing potion presumably wouldn't work on a fighter who had already spent all his healing surges that day).

Not only the second wind, but also things like the fighter's self healing and the warlord being about to restore HP via inspiration. The healing surge is also a useful mechanic for representing vitality as well, and I also like the connection between magical healing and personal vitality. That may just be my inner Wheel of Time fan speaking, but its a concept that works well for me.
 

Gold Roger

First Post
Monsters, monsters and, well, monsters.

I loved 4E monster design. They just need to make sure the math and classed NPC's works out from the beginning.

Also:

Fighters that can actually keep up.

As much as magic items where fail in the beginning, those from Mordenkainens Magnificient Emporium where awesome.
 

pemerton

Legend
I like a lot of what others have posted: easy prep, healing surges (and the theory of hit points as "mojo" that they represent, and the martial healing that they therefore permit), the action economy, etc.

The single biggest thing, for me, would be 4e's focus on in-conflict rather than pre-conflict decision making. Instead of scry-buff-teleport being the norm, between taking away some abilities (freely available scry and teleport, and strongly limiting buffs in number and duration) and making combat so dynamic and decision-rich (the action economy; movement; who to heal, and when, and using which part of the party's resources; the power system more generally), it really shifts the focus of play to the conflict itself.

It also gets rid of niggling details that make it hard to move on from a conflict that has resolved - eg the item identication and healing rules (take a short rest, it's done); the skill challenge rules (failed 3 times? it's over, no more checks); and other comparable things.

To maybe put it another way - the game locates the minutiae where they count - in the heart of making decisions within a conflict - rather than in the peripheries of play (preparing for, or tidying up after, combats).
 

jbear

First Post
Okay, I'll play.

Easy, Moderate and Hard DCs. I don't want to have to figure out a specific DC if someone is climing up a cliff using a knotted rope and it is raining. I just want to be able to make a judgement call on how hard such and action is and have a number I can reference from my head on the fly.

Rack up another point for monster design. Want to add more fluff. Super. But monsters that I can design myself in 3-5 minutes (or less!) from scratch. Yes please.

Wizards that don't use crossbows. At will cantrips are also cool. The wizard always feels wizardy even when his big guns are spent. And in the same breath Wizards that don't eventually bust the game due to sheer god-like power.

Fighters that do more than swing what they have in their hand. Daily powers? Not fussed. Encounter powers, neither. But cool cinematic awesomeness in some form: yes please.

Dynamic combat where terrain and terrain features really matter, can and should be interacted with. Sure, make combat more slick and quick. Reduce HPs all you like. But let's keep combat tactical or at least a well developed option for tactical for those of us that enjoy it please.

An option for robust lvl 1 PC's. Or at least no 1 HP wizards. Have an option for zeros but please have an option to start as heroes.

No dumb monsters ... like individual cats. Or rats. Swarms on the other hand are awesome. Keep swarms for sure! And minions. But I don't want my hero to be attacked by a rat.

Standardised XP charts. I dont want more things to memorise. I want to be able to memorise all the essential parts of the system. Personally I don't like to bother tracking individual PC XP. My players all advance at the same rate. Also, many people don't use XP and just advance at certain times. Having standard xp for all classes facilitates this as well.

I'd like there to exist an option for 'a way to save out of paralysing or immobilising effects etc' other than waiting til the effect ends.

I like Healing that relates to PC Hps as opposed to solely spell level. I like the idea of self healing. If this was changed to THP, I could live with that. Or a more organic form of HSurges. That would be fine too. But I do like the idea that PCs can reach a limit of the amount they can be healed in a day. I'm fine if how HPs are recovered is altered to be less instant as long as the system for recovery is simple and not cumbersome.

I want a game with a character builder and a monster builder. And just in case anyone from WotC is reading this, I want a VTT that incorporates those two features but also lets me use my own tokens, customise my own monsters, customise my own PCs and items and import my own maps. If I get that you will have a faithful digital customer. If you incorporate a campaign wiki feature that can link to these tools ... ehem ...But I digress.

Artifacts that come and go. I think the artifact system that designs them to appear into teh PCs life for a time and then leave is really nifty. They did not get magic items right in 4e, but I think thye made some pretty awesome artifacts.

Disease track. I think this is another really neat sub system. And it's so easy to apply to poison or curses.

Rituals. Again I have to agree with others. In theory. My groups cleric loved having rituals but only ever used them 3 times in 11 levels of adventure. Because it was costly, time consuming and clumsy to do so. Those 3 times however made for very memorable moments of the campaign.

Easy to understand challenge metre to judge the challenge you are throwing at the PCs. In 4e terms XP buy. I don't mind if the encounter is a given feature of the game but I still want to be able to calculate quickly and easily an appropriate level challenge (be it dungeon level or room by room), an easy challenge a difficult challenge or a very difficult challenge for the PCs depending on level. This makes prep much faster.

I like the action point. Call it adrenaline surge. I don't care. It's a cool mechanic.

No confirm on critical hits. Roll a 20 = awesome. Not roll a 20 and maybe it's awesome. Of course I have a house rule to roll a confirmed critical which if confirmed something even more awesome happens. So I'd be fine with something like that.

Tiers of Play. Yep, I like how there are certain stages where your character reaches different levels of awesome and becomes more customised. I'd like to see a epic level tier however that was fully supported however.

NADs. Yeah, I think this is a great simplification. I know this is a touchy one for a lot of people. But I think its a great idea. I think touch and flat footed AC are an unnecessary complication.

The option of 1-1 movement. I understand this makes diagonal movement advantageous, but it also removes an element that does slow down gameplay fro some people.

How Resistance and Vulnerability is handled.

The alignment: unaligned

An option for ability point buy

Classes that are equally as good as all the others. No classes that suck. No classes that are clearly better options than others. They can be very different but all should be as good as each other, just in different ways.
 

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