The Insane Multispell

[-Eä-]

Multispell is in my opinion the most powerful feat there is, if you first take three Automatic Quicken Spell. The reason for this is that if you make it so that you may throw enough deathspells, the probability of saving against such effects is rather small if you may throw loads of spells in a round. Using this combo, a x level wizard may almost certainly ANY y level wizard, taken he has not the same combo.

If you only fail your save on one, the probability of failing your save, throwing n spells in a round is: 1-((19/20)^n).
Now we find out how many spells you need to get the probability for saving 50%:
n=ln(2)/ln(20/19)~13,5
That is if you can pull off 14 spells in a round, the fellow has less than 50% probability of making the save.

Given that you can cast Haste before the combat starts and you win initiative, you now need 15 epic feats to be almost a god:
3 Automatic Quicken Spell and 12 Multispell... Specialise in necromancy, and there is a big chance that you may pull off 14 death spells in a round:
5 9th level slots, 5 8th level slots and 5 7th level slots, not including bonus spells for high intelligence, and you have chosen the Heighten Spell before 20th level.

Taken that you may want to improve this, alternate between Improved Spell Capacity and Multispell the next levels, and it will be even more difficult to save. If you are able to pull off 20 spells in a round, for example, the probability for not making the save is 64%

 

[Ristamar]

The ELH already recognizes this problem. That is why they present the open-ended roll variant since it offers PC a chance of survival, even if they roll poorly.

As for having 15 Epic Feats and being able to assail someone with a barrage of quickened spells.... well, duh.

Any PC that has 15 Epic Feats is likely to be a total ass-kicker (as long as the feat selection isn't half-assed). I hardly think it's broken. .. *shrug*

 

[Crothian]

Isn't it great? You could do this, and then get destroyed by an epic spell. Or the guy who can empower a fireball so many times making the saving throw doesn't matter, you're dead either way.

The multi spell guy will run out of spells real fast. Sure, he might be great in a few round of combat but then what? It's just one of the many great options in ELH.

 

[Oni]

Yeah, so the first thing you meet that offends you is a smoking crater, what happens when the second wave comes and you've already blown all your spells?

 

[-Eä-]

I think you fail to see the potential of this combination. The point is that free actions come first, and therefore, if the opponent doesn't have any sort of immunity vs. death spells or SR, the wizard has a fair chance of beating an opponent with challenge rating 20 above that of the wizard withour problem. In my oppinion, this is nothing I would do for a wizard on my own, but it is in fact totally devastating.

A level 42 wizard will, for instance, have no trouble beating a Devastation Spider. Using one pumped up spell won't help you a bit...

You claim that Empower Will do the same thing pumped up!? It sure will not... If you face a creature having some 4000 HP, having a CR of some 60, perhaps, your combo wouldn't have a chance. Point is that if you do this, you have a fair chance of making it, even if you are not supposed to manage it for some levels yet.

If I have the time, I will post all the statistics of why, but that's not likely because reformatting things to fit this textformat is a pain in the ass.

 

[Crothian]

Free actions don't come first. They happen on your iniaitve. But your saying cast 8 (or how ever many) spells per round that are all save or die. Then even if the monster only fails on a low number, eventually he will fail.

That's good, but it's not trustworthy. They guy makes all the saves and then all you've done iswaster a bunch of spells. At least with damage spells they still take some damage from making the save.

 

[Orco42]

At that level you could cast a quickened time stop followed by a persistant time stop.

That works out to a thousands of spells in one round (well one round for everyone but the caster and Elminster).

Also at that level someone could cast Harm and a quickened Inflict wound spells from 120' away.

So your combo is not nearly as bad as others.

 

[kreynolds]

I think you fail to see the potential of this combination.

I think you fail to recognize the rules.

The point is that free actions come first...

Nope. Free actions occur only during your turn unless specifically stated otherwise. See? It's not as bad as you think.

 

[Al]

Well, for one any NPC who's worth their salt has Death Ward.

But this whole thread is rather based on the premise: 'If you take an epic caster and give him tons of effective epic feats' then he'll become too powerful.

Um, duh?

Okay, how's about this. Intensified Time Stop, followed by ten Intensified Enervations? 80 negative levels? Wow! You could really kill someone without Negative Plane Protection. Needs just 12 epic feats to kill a CR 80 character!

Or...Intensified Time Stop, followed by 10 Intensified Meteor Swarms and 10 Quickened Meteor Swarms. 2880+240d6 damage! Kills nearly anything without SR or hefty Fire Resistance!

Or simply an Epic Death Spell with an obscenely pumped up DC!

The fact is that epic spells and epic feats can be used to make as many smackdowns as you want. Taking repeated Multispell is no more interesting than a dozen other myriad ways of epicly decimating people. I don't fail to see the potential of this combination, but you fail to see the potential of others...

 

[-Eä-]

Hehe... Sorry about that "free actions" blunder...

The Harm combo is even deadlier, I recognise that, the Time Stop even worse, but the wizard is likely to win the initiative anyhow, so that's not just a big issue... At that level an Innate Quickened Time Stop could be acquired as well, leaving you with hundreds of options... However, most people I know don't allow those combos. That's why I though of this... Even if it's unreliable, it gets more reliable for each Multispell. If there for instance is some überpowerful being that the characters though they could never beat, this would be a viable option to dispose of that character.

A character could also have Contingency Heal, if Harm is cast on them, which almost all should have at some point.

If you account for SR, taken you need 20 to come through that, the probability is greater for the creature to fail when you pull off 24 spells or more...

I guess most people are not used to such power levels, but ultimately, this is the best combination for slaying people not immune to death attacks, even though it requires an enormous amount of levels.

At 58 spells per round, you have over 90% probability of slaying the other character with supreme saves and spell resistance... This other character is probably vastly more powerful than you are, but if you win the initiative, the other character is...dead.

On free actions: Although it's not supported by the rules, if you have free actions, even if you lose initiative, they should come before actions, as actions take time to initiate.

Alternatively, raising the DC of the spells can be done at +11/12 DC per level. This is more than the opponents can raise their saving throws with, and you gain loads of spell slots, using Improved Spell Capacity and Improved Heighten Spell. However, the probability wil then never exceed 99,9875% of slaying the other character, given it's of relatively equal level, not accounting for SR, it will never work on characters or monsters with a power superior to you.

With the Multispell thingy, you may get so close to 100% that you want given n levels, and that against creatures beyond the farthest star, as per the rules as they are now.

You may not think it is an issue now, and maybe it isn't for the first 100 levels, but after that, then...wizards with these combos are superior to those without them.




Perhaps the best thing is to compromise between all the options...you want Epic Spellcasting and the other spellcasting nifties as well, but at slaying, the Multispell combo is the best ultimately. (except for the Time Stop thingy, which I know no sane DM would allow)

The drawbacks are: you need to win initiative (or else you are dead) and you may want to save a spell slot for Quickened Teleport without Error, if all the other spells fail to slay the opponent... It works only on one foe (but likely you will have other characters to back you up).

As for the issue with damaging spells: You may cast as many of them as well... 14 Quickened Horrid Wilitings is nothing to sneeze at wither.

It only comes down to: Many DMs would not recognise the lethal potential of doing this. The Persistant and/or Innate Time Stop is quite obvious, but if you sometime see a character improving his Dexterity and taking multiple Multispell, it should be a warning, as you don't want such a character in your campaign (unless most of the beings the characters encounter are immune to death effects). I know I wouldn't...
Harm should not be too difficult to counter, using Epic Contincency spells or items to Heal them whenever the situations occur. It may be fun as an introduction to high level play vs. unexperienced players to show them that they want to prepare for everything.