The Inverse Trek Law?

[The Little Raven]

Let us never forget that 1e AD&D is the best selling RPG of all time.

According to what, exactly? Gary Gygax, the guy that hasn't been a part of D&D's development, and therefore would not have access to sales figures, for over 20 years?

3e got people to leave the hobby to play WoW.

3e was selling better than any previous version of D&D, according to Charles Ryan, someone who actually had access to the sales figures for every version of D&D to date.

 

[Mephistopheles]

How about: "D&D gets better with each new edition."

I've played 2E, 3.x and I'm going to play 4E.

I think it would be fairer to say D&D changes with each new edition. The scope of the change is increasing with each new edition. It's looking quite possible that if 1E and 4E are compared they won't be recognizable as two editions of the same game.

 

[Piratecat]

According to what, exactly? Gary Gygax, the guy that hasn't been a part of D&D's development, and therefore would not have access to sales figures, for over 20 years?

Did he credit Gary Gygax for that information? He didn't. So don't put words in other peoples' mouths.

This may be a good time for a reminder, and this is meant for everyone. Feeling strongly about a topic does not give you the right to come across as a jerk when discussing it. That means that saying "And Gary's prose sucks." is significantly worse than saying "And I think Gary's prose sucks." No one can argue with the latter, and people can definitely take umbrage with the former.

We recognize that people feel strongly about different editions. That's cool. When you start trying to shove your opinion down other peoples' throats, though, it's time to take a step back and rewrite your post.

If this is difficult for anyone to understand, please feel free to email me.

 

[Zamkaizer]

I dunno, it is still the highest grossing Star Trek movie to date (adjusted for inflation and all that). It's also one of the most well-known of the series to non-Trek fans ("You mean, the one with the whales? Nuclear wessels!").

I would argue that it's popularity comes at the expense the veneer of seriousness the series had managed to maintain since the first film. It's an entertaining film, to be sure, but not a particularly good one--either as science fiction or comedy. I submit to all present that the Trek Law should be revised to 'the only truly good Star Trek films are The Wrath of Khan and First Contact'.

In before someone cleverly applies my first sentence to 4E, by the way.

 

[Delta]

In 2003, Charles Ryan (then Brand Manager of D&D) said that D&D was selling better at that time than any other time in it's history.

I think you mean the following very carefully-constructed quote fron 2004:
http://www.nationalreview.com/miller/miller200410151029.asp

"More people play Dungeons & Dragons now than ever before," says Charles Ryan, D&D's brand manager. "Every year, we sell more copies of the Player's Handbook than we did during the 1980s."

Notice that it doesn't say what you think it says (that D&D is selling more today than any other time in history). It does say:

(1) That more people are playing D&D than ever before -- which technically would include all the people playing OD&D, 1E, 2E, with 3E added on top.

(2) That the PHB sells more now than in the 1980's -- which specifically leaves out the 1970's when the 1E PHB was actually published (1978).

 

[FireLance]

I prefer Star Wars

Is there a Star Wars law?

Of course, we'd be stuck arguing which were "the first three movies".

 

[Darrin Drader]

I would argue that it's popularity comes at the expense the veneer of seriousness the series had managed to maintain since the first film. It's an entertaining film, to be sure, but not a particularly good one--either as science fiction or comedy. I submit to all present that the Trek Law should be revised to 'the only truly good Star Trek films are The Wrath of Khan and First Contact'.

You forgot Undiscovered Country. I think I've watched that one more times in recent years than TWOK.

 

[Zamkaizer]

You forgot Undiscovered Country. I think I've watched that one more times in recent years than TWOK.

Fine, fine. Honestly though, while The Undiscovered Country made for a graceful retirement of the Enterprise-A, much of its symbolism doesn't move me as much as it does others, since I was two--maybe--when the Iron Curtain fell.

 

[Hussar]

(2) That the PHB sells more now than in the 1980's -- which specifically leaves out the 1970's when the 1E PHB was actually published (1978).

Except, it wasn't until the 80's that D&D started selling in great numbers. The heyday was 81-83, not 1978. So, if it sells more than the 80's, it definitely sold more than the 70's.

 

[The Little Raven]

(2) That the PHB sells more now than in the 1980's -- which specifically leaves out the 1970's when the 1E PHB was actually published (1978).

Read the quote carefully. They sell more PHBs each year than they sold during the 1980s. Now, this either means that they sell more PHBs in 1 year than an entire decade, or they outsell every single individual year from the 1980s. One is obviously way more impressive than the other, but either way, they're outselling 1st Edition during it's heyday.