the Jester
Legend
That's sort of the model I want to use, but something a bit easier to evaluate on the fly.
D&D General The Jester's Perfect D&D
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the Jester
Legend
I have been re-thinking xp some more.
First of all, if I give flat xp based on encounter difficulty, one of the main reasons for escalating numbers of xp required to advance- higher xp values for higher level foes- goes away. So does the number of xp required per level really need to climb?
I do want higher levels to take longer, but should (f'rex) 5th level take five times as long as first level?
So I am thinking about something like this:
Level- XP
1- 0 to 999
2- 1,000 to 1,999
3- 2,000 to 3,999
4- 4,000 to 5,999
5- 6,000 to 8,999
6- 9,000 to 11,999
7- 12,000 to 15,999
8- 16,000 to 19,999
9- 20,000 to 24,999
10- 25,000 and up
I'm not sold on the exact numbers yet but something like that.
Second, in setting how many xp a combat (or other xp-worthy thing) is worth, I need to decide how many of that thing should get a character a level when they are at the lowest xp tier and base the value on that. For instance, if the pcs don't do anything worth gaining xp other than roleplay, I feel like it should take ten sessions to go from first to second level, so rp xp should be roughly 100 per session.
So- what all do I want to give xp for?
Obviously, combat.
Roleplaying- I have a system for this, which I will detail in the next post.
Accomplishing goals and finishing adventures.
Also, I am a big fan of mixed level play, but in most systems, the way the xp charts are set up helps lower level pcs catch up. I want a mechanism for this, which I've already kind of worked up (again, details in the next post).
First of all, if I give flat xp based on encounter difficulty, one of the main reasons for escalating numbers of xp required to advance- higher xp values for higher level foes- goes away. So does the number of xp required per level really need to climb?
I do want higher levels to take longer, but should (f'rex) 5th level take five times as long as first level?
So I am thinking about something like this:
Level- XP
1- 0 to 999
2- 1,000 to 1,999
3- 2,000 to 3,999
4- 4,000 to 5,999
5- 6,000 to 8,999
6- 9,000 to 11,999
7- 12,000 to 15,999
8- 16,000 to 19,999
9- 20,000 to 24,999
10- 25,000 and up
I'm not sold on the exact numbers yet but something like that.
Second, in setting how many xp a combat (or other xp-worthy thing) is worth, I need to decide how many of that thing should get a character a level when they are at the lowest xp tier and base the value on that. For instance, if the pcs don't do anything worth gaining xp other than roleplay, I feel like it should take ten sessions to go from first to second level, so rp xp should be roughly 100 per session.
So- what all do I want to give xp for?
Obviously, combat.
Roleplaying- I have a system for this, which I will detail in the next post.
Accomplishing goals and finishing adventures.
Also, I am a big fan of mixed level play, but in most systems, the way the xp charts are set up helps lower level pcs catch up. I want a mechanism for this, which I've already kind of worked up (again, details in the next post).
the Jester
Legend
So what is my roleplaying xp system? I am going to return to a system I used in 3e: the "four point" roleplaying system. At the end of each session, each pc can earn xp for each of four categories: class, race, alignment, and personal. It's easy to earn these xps; you just have to tell me how you roleplayed that category.
For example, an elf could claim racial xp by pointing out that they slept in a tree, or they were snooty to other races because they're short-lived, or for going off about how elven jewelry is superior, etc. A wizard could claim class xp by telling me that they spent time studying a book, or that they tried to figure out how a curse worked, or that they traded spells with another wizard. Someone could claim personal xp for spending time with their father, or for going to their favorite restaurant, or for discovering that they love to dance.
It's basically almost a given that every pc will earn all four categories of rp xp each session as long as they put even a tiny bit of effort into it- unless the game is almost completely focused on combat or something. Even then it's quite possible, even likely, that everyone will get full rp xp.
Assuming I start with 1,000 xp as the goal for level 2, and I want to stick to the "ten sessions of only roleplay is a level", then rp xp should be 25 per category.
Now, as far as the "catch up" part goes (catching lower level pcs up to higher level pcs)...
If a first level pc is in a party with 10th level pcs, that alone shouldn't earn a level in one session. How many sessions should it take? Well... I'd say only a couple. So I'm thinking that each pc who isn't the highest level member of the group should get bonus xp equal to slightly less than 50 x the difference in levels between them and the highest level pc. So a 1st level pc with a 10th level buddy should get... not quite 450 bonus xp. Maybe 40 x the difference? That makes 360 for a nine-level difference. That means that they'll level in three sessions, even given no other xp.
But! Given that I don't want any one-session levels- not a fan of that at all- that might be a bit much. (Remember, they're almost certainly getting 100 for roleplay, plus a presently undefined number for combat.) So maybe 25 x the level difference? That makes a maximum of 225 for a nine-level gap. At that rate, I feel like I can reasonably expect a two to three session level.
Which leaves goals and combat.
For example, an elf could claim racial xp by pointing out that they slept in a tree, or they were snooty to other races because they're short-lived, or for going off about how elven jewelry is superior, etc. A wizard could claim class xp by telling me that they spent time studying a book, or that they tried to figure out how a curse worked, or that they traded spells with another wizard. Someone could claim personal xp for spending time with their father, or for going to their favorite restaurant, or for discovering that they love to dance.
It's basically almost a given that every pc will earn all four categories of rp xp each session as long as they put even a tiny bit of effort into it- unless the game is almost completely focused on combat or something. Even then it's quite possible, even likely, that everyone will get full rp xp.
Assuming I start with 1,000 xp as the goal for level 2, and I want to stick to the "ten sessions of only roleplay is a level", then rp xp should be 25 per category.
Now, as far as the "catch up" part goes (catching lower level pcs up to higher level pcs)...
If a first level pc is in a party with 10th level pcs, that alone shouldn't earn a level in one session. How many sessions should it take? Well... I'd say only a couple. So I'm thinking that each pc who isn't the highest level member of the group should get bonus xp equal to slightly less than 50 x the difference in levels between them and the highest level pc. So a 1st level pc with a 10th level buddy should get... not quite 450 bonus xp. Maybe 40 x the difference? That makes 360 for a nine-level difference. That means that they'll level in three sessions, even given no other xp.
But! Given that I don't want any one-session levels- not a fan of that at all- that might be a bit much. (Remember, they're almost certainly getting 100 for roleplay, plus a presently undefined number for combat.) So maybe 25 x the level difference? That makes a maximum of 225 for a nine-level gap. At that rate, I feel like I can reasonably expect a two to three session level.
Which leaves goals and combat.
the Jester
Legend
I'm actually starting to think that, rather than giving xp per combat, I might want to give xp for combat in a session. Basically, figure out some numbers for little combat in a session (less than 1/3), a moderate amount of combat in a session, and most of the session is combat (more than 2/3), and a multiplier for how hard the combat is.
Mulling....
Mulling....
the Jester
Legend
So I am liking my "per session" thing for combat, but am going to change it to being for danger. So it will include traps, hazards, etc.
Something like-
If up to 1/4 of the session is spent dealing with danger, the pcs earn a base 50 xp.
If up to 1/2 the session is spent dealing with danger, the pcs earn a base 100 xp.
If up to 3/4 the session is spent dealing with danger, the pcs earn a base 200 xp.
If more than 3/4 the session is spent dealing with danger, the pcs earn a base 250 xp.
And- a multiplier for the level of the danger. So:
If no pc is bloodied during the session, x.5.
If more than half the party is bloodied during the session or at least one pc drops to 0 hp or below, x1.
If multiple pcs drop to 0 hp or below, or if all pcs are bloodied during the session, x1.5.
If at least one pc dies during the session, x2.
This means that a basically all-danger session that kills a pc is worth 500 xp, or half a level by itself.
I welcome any thoughts or feedback on this.
Something like-
If up to 1/4 of the session is spent dealing with danger, the pcs earn a base 50 xp.
If up to 1/2 the session is spent dealing with danger, the pcs earn a base 100 xp.
If up to 3/4 the session is spent dealing with danger, the pcs earn a base 200 xp.
If more than 3/4 the session is spent dealing with danger, the pcs earn a base 250 xp.
And- a multiplier for the level of the danger. So:
If no pc is bloodied during the session, x.5.
If more than half the party is bloodied during the session or at least one pc drops to 0 hp or below, x1.
If multiple pcs drop to 0 hp or below, or if all pcs are bloodied during the session, x1.5.
If at least one pc dies during the session, x2.
This means that a basically all-danger session that kills a pc is worth 500 xp, or half a level by itself.
I welcome any thoughts or feedback on this.
the Jester
Legend
XP for Goals
Each pc can choose to assign themselves up to three minor goals and one major goal at a time. A major goal should be one that can't be accomplished easily or quickly- it should take considerable effort and many sessions to accomplish. Achieving a minor goal should take some dedicated effort but be achievable with a few sessions of effort. A pc who achieves a minor goal receives 50 xp; a pc who achieves a major goal receives 200 xp.
In addition, the party as a whole can have goals as well, generally assigned by the dm. If the party achieves a minor goal, each pc receives 50 xp. If the party achieves a major goal (such as finishing a long adventure), each pc receives 200 xp.
Each pc can choose to assign themselves up to three minor goals and one major goal at a time. A major goal should be one that can't be accomplished easily or quickly- it should take considerable effort and many sessions to accomplish. Achieving a minor goal should take some dedicated effort but be achievable with a few sessions of effort. A pc who achieves a minor goal receives 50 xp; a pc who achieves a major goal receives 200 xp.
In addition, the party as a whole can have goals as well, generally assigned by the dm. If the party achieves a minor goal, each pc receives 50 xp. If the party achieves a major goal (such as finishing a long adventure), each pc receives 200 xp.
the Jester
Legend
So an update.
First of all, I have changed a few things; bonus dice start at a d4 now, I have removed Action Surge from fighters, and I have instituted Action Points for all characters. These work like in 4e: they reset to 1 AP after a long rest and you gain 1 AP about every other meaningful encounter. You can spend 1 to take an extra action, and you can only spend 1 per round. Also, some feats now include a "when you spend an action point" clause that gives you an extra something. You can only benefit from one such clause per AP spent.
Also, some monsters now do special stuff on a crit. There's an example below.
I have now run two sessions each for two different groups with my system. So far, it's going great!
No pcs have died, though one did lose an eye to a critical hit from a blood hawk. This group is working to earn their initiations into the local Adventurers' Guild. To do so, they have to complete three tasks. The first one was to convince a local gangster who was the son of their guild contact to surrender his child so that it wouldn't be brought up in the gang. This required some diplomacy, and was complicated when some gangsters tried to take the child back as part of a scheme to discredit the father. (Two of them were blood hawk handlers, and that's where the lost eye came in.)
The second task was to kill one monster for each pc that were infesting the local canal network. These included giant bloodworms and bunyips. This went pretty well, too.
The third task is to track down a renegade gnome wizard and either bring him in or clear his name. They're just starting that one.
Group 2 is playing through Of Sound Mind, by our very own Piratecat (though I don't know if he's still on the boards; haven't seen him in a dog's age). Basically the party encountered a farmer who was trying to wrangle two of his horses that had escaped his pasture and helped get them back under control; entered the small community where the adventure takes place; learned about some of the local issues, including some missing children, as well as a plague of headaches and bad dreams; and set out to find the missing kids. They found some tracks that indicated that the kids might have been kidnapped by goblins, followed them to a nigh-unclimbable mountain, hired a local mountaineer to help them ascend, got attacked from above while on the mountain's face and were forced to retreat, and returned to town.
They then learned that the farmer they had helped had been murdered. Investigating, they discovered that those two rogue horses were responsible and had strange powers. They managed to dispatch the horses, and found strange crystals implanted in their heads.
So far both groups are about 2/3 of the way to 2nd level- advancement is happening at about the pace I want. Both are having fun, and I'm pretty happy with the way the game is playing. One player was initially a little discombobulated by the fact that there's no at will magic, but she has only played 4e and 5e before, and she's adjusting.
So, overall- so far, so good!
First of all, I have changed a few things; bonus dice start at a d4 now, I have removed Action Surge from fighters, and I have instituted Action Points for all characters. These work like in 4e: they reset to 1 AP after a long rest and you gain 1 AP about every other meaningful encounter. You can spend 1 to take an extra action, and you can only spend 1 per round. Also, some feats now include a "when you spend an action point" clause that gives you an extra something. You can only benefit from one such clause per AP spent.
Also, some monsters now do special stuff on a crit. There's an example below.
I have now run two sessions each for two different groups with my system. So far, it's going great!
No pcs have died, though one did lose an eye to a critical hit from a blood hawk. This group is working to earn their initiations into the local Adventurers' Guild. To do so, they have to complete three tasks. The first one was to convince a local gangster who was the son of their guild contact to surrender his child so that it wouldn't be brought up in the gang. This required some diplomacy, and was complicated when some gangsters tried to take the child back as part of a scheme to discredit the father. (Two of them were blood hawk handlers, and that's where the lost eye came in.)
The second task was to kill one monster for each pc that were infesting the local canal network. These included giant bloodworms and bunyips. This went pretty well, too.
The third task is to track down a renegade gnome wizard and either bring him in or clear his name. They're just starting that one.
Group 2 is playing through Of Sound Mind, by our very own Piratecat (though I don't know if he's still on the boards; haven't seen him in a dog's age). Basically the party encountered a farmer who was trying to wrangle two of his horses that had escaped his pasture and helped get them back under control; entered the small community where the adventure takes place; learned about some of the local issues, including some missing children, as well as a plague of headaches and bad dreams; and set out to find the missing kids. They found some tracks that indicated that the kids might have been kidnapped by goblins, followed them to a nigh-unclimbable mountain, hired a local mountaineer to help them ascend, got attacked from above while on the mountain's face and were forced to retreat, and returned to town.
They then learned that the farmer they had helped had been murdered. Investigating, they discovered that those two rogue horses were responsible and had strange powers. They managed to dispatch the horses, and found strange crystals implanted in their heads.
So far both groups are about 2/3 of the way to 2nd level- advancement is happening at about the pace I want. Both are having fun, and I'm pretty happy with the way the game is playing. One player was initially a little discombobulated by the fact that there's no at will magic, but she has only played 4e and 5e before, and she's adjusting.
So, overall- so far, so good!
Stormonu
NeoGrognard
An idea for initiative -
It's an ability roll vs. Dex
Order goes:
Highest roll that succeeded the ability roll (i.e.: Gutboy has a 15 Dex. He rolls a 13, beating the orcs who roll a 9 against their 10 Dex)
Next Highest (in this case, the Orcs) ...etc.
Those who failed the ability roll, starting with the individual who rolled closest to their Dex (ex., Blackleaf rolls a 17 against her 16 Dex)
Next individual who failed that was farther from their target number (ex., Gary the Hob who rolled a 20 against his 10 Dex)...etc.
If you want to make life tougher, have those who failed their roll announce aloud their general intent for the round (i.e., telegraphing their actions before their performed). Or, perhaps those who failed the check take a D6 penalty to their action or a penalty to movement for being "too slow to react" or being "unable to take the initiative".
It's an ability roll vs. Dex
Order goes:
Highest roll that succeeded the ability roll (i.e.: Gutboy has a 15 Dex. He rolls a 13, beating the orcs who roll a 9 against their 10 Dex)
Next Highest (in this case, the Orcs) ...etc.
Those who failed the ability roll, starting with the individual who rolled closest to their Dex (ex., Blackleaf rolls a 17 against her 16 Dex)
Next individual who failed that was farther from their target number (ex., Gary the Hob who rolled a 20 against his 10 Dex)...etc.
If you want to make life tougher, have those who failed their roll announce aloud their general intent for the round (i.e., telegraphing their actions before their performed). Or, perhaps those who failed the check take a D6 penalty to their action or a penalty to movement for being "too slow to react" or being "unable to take the initiative".
the Jester
Legend
Not a bad idea!
So far I have been using 1d10 + Dex score, which is quick and easy. But your idea is more consistent with the rest of the game. On the other hand, I wonder if it would slow things down somehow- I really put a premium on making the game move pretty fast.
Stormonu
NeoGrognard
I think its worth trying out for a fight or two, but I may be biased
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