D&D 5E The lack of "trap" choices in 5E

[Vicar In A Tutu]

There is supposed to be far fewer trap choices in 5E than in previous editions. But I noticed one thing about the feat "Resilient". You get to become proficient with a saving throw (also an attribute bonus, I think it was either Str or Con). The thing is, if a player chooses to become proficient in either Strength, Charisma or Intelligence saving throws, he has essentially wasted this benefit, as there are no spells in Basic that use any of these saving throws, and therefore reasonable to assume that either 0 or extremely few spells in PHB will use them. The only thing that remains is the Monster Manual. I hope many monsters have abilities that make the "crappy" saving throws even remotely useful, but I doubt it. If no Illusion spells in the PHB forces the victim to make an Int saving throw, why should the illusion that a monster creates use that saving throw?

 

[Remathilis]

There is supposed to be far fewer trap choices in 5E than in previous editions. But I noticed one thing about the feat "Resilient". You get to become proficient with a saving throw (also an attribute bonus, I think it was either Str or Con). The thing is, if a player chooses to become proficient in either Strength, Charisma or Intelligence saving throws, he has essentially wasted this benefit, as there are no spells in Basic that use any of these saving throws, and therefore reasonable to assume that either 0 or extremely few spells in PHB will use them. The only thing that remains is the Monster Manual. I hope many monsters have abilities that make the "crappy" saving throws even remotely useful, but I doubt it. If no Illusion spells in the PHB forces the victim to make an Int saving throw, why should the illusion that a monster creates use that saving throw?

Strength saves might be used against forced movement, Int against Psionics (hello mind flayer) and Cha against charming songs/abilities (siren songs, nymph's lure).

But yeah, right now the secondary saves (Str/Int/Cha) are kinda a lesser option, but by no means a trap (yet).

 

[Vicar In A Tutu]

Strength saves might be used against forced movement, Int against Psionics (hello mind flayer) and Cha against charming songs/abilities (siren songs, nymph's lure).

But yeah, right now the secondary saves (Str/Int/Cha) are kinda a lesser option, but by no means a trap (yet).

Why would the Charm-effect of Charm Person use Wisdom while the charm-effect of a siren use Charisma? I think it's better to be consistant with that the saving throws are used for, just like with attribute tests. It's not like you force a door using Strength and when you in the next room want to smash open a window, the DM says "test Charisma"

 

[Remathilis]

Added thought.

I don't like the idea that something can be declared a "trap" just yet. Trap implies that it is a "wrong" way to build something; and as soon as you say its "wrong" it implies the other way is "right" which starts the process of straightjacketing characters into narrow "trap free builds", which in turn then forces the game ever upwards as the arms race between DM and PC starts.

 

[jadrax]

It is still possible that Resilient will not actually work the way it did in the Alpha.

 

[ExploderWizard]

It is a bit early to start searching for traps. Once all three core books are released then we can all let our inner rogue go wild, but for now, just relax and absorb the new content.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

It is a bit early to start searching for traps. Once all three core books are released then we can all let our inner rogue go wild, but for now, just relax and absorb the new content.

We only actually need the PHB, but otherwise, shockingly, I agree! Until we see what's actually been implemented in the actual PHB, we can't really start saying what's "trap" and what's otherwise.

In particular I expect one of the +HP feats to die before the PHB comes out.

 

[Remathilis]

Why would the Charm-effect of Charm Person use Wisdom while the charm-effect of a siren use Charisma? I think it's better to be consistant with that the saving throws are used for, just like with attribute tests. It's not like you force a door using Strength and when you in the next room want to smash open a window, the DM says "test Charisma"

Ok, I did a quick run through ThatWhichShallNotBeNamed*, and it seems Charisma is the save against planar binding or banishment (Divine Word, Forcecage, etc) as well as spells that effect emotion (Calm Emotion, Symbol) and Truth (Zone of Truth). Cha is used for spells where you test your presence against another, rather than those that test your willpower.

Intelligence seems very much the area of psionics; spells that affect your mind (Feeblemind, Symbol of Madness) or use your brain to kill you (Phantasmal Killer, Weird) seem to be the Int save areas. I'm sure Mind Blast and the eventual Psionicist are going to have a field day with this.

Strength saves are against physical restraint or movement: Entangle, Gust of Wind, Thunderous Smite's knockback, the winds of a Tsumani or Wind Wall spells, etc.

* All the usual caveats about accuracy and all that.

 

[TwoSix]

Ok, I did a quick run through ThatWhichShallNotBeNamed, and it seems Charisma is the save against planar binding or banishment (Divine Word, Forcecage, etc) as well as spells that effect emotion (Calm Emotion, Symbol) and Truth (Zone of Truth). Cha is used for spells where you test your presence against another, rather than those that test your willpower.

Intelligence seems very much the area of psionics; spells that affect your mind (Feeblemind, Symbol of Madness) or use your brain to kill you (Phantasmal Killer, Weird) seem to be the Int save areas. I'm sure Mind Blast and the eventual Psionicist are going to have a field day with this.

Strength saves are against physical restraint or movement: Entangle, Gust of Wind, Thunderous Smite's knockback, the winds of a Tsumani or Wind Wall spells, etc.

That's excellent to hear. The lack of Str, Int, and Cha saves was a facet of 5e that I really wasn't happy with.

 

[keterys]

They could always make Resilient work like the way they did classes - one save that matters, one save that doesn't.