The Lance

[Hypersmurf]

The big problem is that 3e messed up mounted combat. While having Lances always do 1.5x strength damage and 2x power attack damage is a nice solution to the 3e mounted combat problem, it is not what the D&D game designers intended.

Oh, it didn't work in 3E. In 3E, the lance was a medium weapon (the equivalent of 3.5's one-handed weapon). The wording was different. Definitely not 1.5x Str bonus to damage in 3E.

It's only in 3.5.

-Hyp.

 

[Ketjak]

Actually, I'm iffy about using any weapon two handed while mounted. Seems rather cumbersome. Does anyone have pics or documentation that shows otherwise?

Native Americans used bows from moving horseback regularly. Trickshooters did with rifles. If I recall correctly, some medieval Japanese bowmen shot while mounted and moving.

I am not sure about melee weapons, though I'm sure the stirrup made it feasible, if not popular.

 

[Storyteller01]

Native Americans used bows from moving horseback regularly. Trickshooters did with rifles. If I recall correctly, some medieval Japanese bowmen shot while mounted and moving.

I am not sure about melee weapons, though I'm sure the stirrup made it feasible, if not popular.

Thought about bows just as I logged on. The Japanese came to mind.

Still, I don't think I've ever seen a melee weapon wielded 2 hnded while mounted. Anyone know of one?

PS: I'm not hi-jacking the thread (anymore than usual, that is). I've started another thread on the subject, if anyone is interested.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Still, I don't think I've ever seen a melee weapon wielded 2 hnded while mounted. Anyone know of one?

Japanese did it.

Click for the full-size image of the "warrior on horseback battling with a yari", for example.

-Hyp.

 

[Coredump]

Which would be the case if the original weapon met the requirements you need. If it doesn't, then your using it in a perscribed manner (in this case, as a lance) is improvising, hence the -4 penalty. While the improvisationruling states what is given, it doesn't state what ISN'T allowed (all hail GM fiat). So far, there's nothing in the ruling that goes against it.

Except that it talks about weapons, not methods. You compare the weapon, and that tells you about what you can/can't do. Or..

Hey, I want to use this so-called longbow with only one hand. Sure it says it is two handed, but I want to improvise. What is the closest thing that is used one handed. A hand crossbow? Okay, I want to improvise my longbow as if it was a hand crossbow. Of course, I want to keep the same damage.....

Besides, given that a lance is essentially a modified long spear (thicker shaft, weight towards the rear, different head) is it do hard to believe that a longspear (or any polearm, for that matter) can be used as a lance?

And a greatsword is a modified longsword. (thicker blade, different balance, different grip) I should be able to use the greatsword in one hand, if I 'improvise' that it is a longsword. Heck, at that point I can dual wield greatswords.

 

[Diirk]

Japanese did it.

Click for the full-size image of the "warrior on horseback battling with a yari", for example.

-Hyp.

The naginata and nagimaki (polearms.. naginatas were 6' - 12' total length with 1' - 3' blades not dissimilair to a katana, nagimakis were offshoots of nodachis and were 3'ish hilt and 3'ish blade) saw a great deal of mounted combat use, also.

I'm pretty sure europeans used 2handed weapons while mounted as well (albeit less commonly than sword/shield or lance) but I'm too lazy to search for details.

 

[glass]

Before you dismiss me as simply using the word semantics to dismiss this, read my post here

Sorry Bront. My post wasn't really aimed at you specifically, it's just that your post gave me the perfect in to expounding my theory, which is why I quoted it.

The point I was attempting to make is that we have now come up with almost 3 pages of people arguing about which words mean more, and it seems to have stoped being constructive, and started to get nasty.

Can forum discussions ever really be described as constructive?

I've seen two people who I would consider very good at interpreting rules disagree with spell writeups in the PHB. How we feel is very important in how we interpret the rules. The fact that I feel this is an ambiguous issue is for the exact reasons I liked to and discussed up here, as well as the fact that several different people have argued on both sides of this, and most of the arguements have been reasonable, from a RAW perspective, as well as a common sense perspective (Which I know often has little to do with the RAW).

There are cases where reasonable arguments can be made on both sides, and the DM has to make a call, and in those cases how the DM and players feel about it is as good a way to call it as any.

There are other cases where the rules are very clear and yet people still query it: whitness the sneak attack once per round thread we have every couple of weeks. IMO, that is feelings getting in the way, where they shouldn't.


glass.

 

[Bront]

Actually, I'm iffy about using any weapon two handed while mounted. Seems rather cumbersome. Does anyone have pics or documentation that shows otherwise?

Actualy, skilled horsemen often stear more with their knees than anything else, and rarely need their hands to control or hold on to the horse. The military saddle is designed to help with that (That's part of why you get a +2 to stay in the saddle with them).

 

[Storyteller01]

Hey, I want to use this so-called longbow with only one hand. Sure it says it is two handed, but I want to improvise. What is the closest thing that is used one handed. A hand crossbow? Okay, I want to improvise my longbow as if it was a hand crossbow. Of course, I want to keep the same damage.....

Not quite the same comparison . Members of this site can give evidence of cultures who's lances were closer to longspears. The lance and the longspear have much more in common.

And a greatsword is a modified longsword. (thicker blade, different balance, different grip) I should be able to use the greatsword in one hand, if I 'improvise' that it is a longsword. Heck, at that point I can dual wield greatswords.

In 3.0 it was possible, although mechanically unsound (not to mention munchkin as all ^&%$). -2 with monkey grip. Meant that with the full compliment of TWF feats you'd fight at a -6 to all attacks.

To be honest, if the player is willing to go though all that for the image of dual wielding greatswords, go for it! That's what the game is about.

Not plausible or effective, but we were running a manga-ish game at the time (something similar to Inuyasha).

 

[Storyteller01]

Actualy, skilled horsemen often stear more with their knees than anything else, and rarely need their hands to control or hold on to the horse. The military saddle is designed to help with that (That's part of why you get a +2 to stay in the saddle with them).

Agreed.

My concern is wielding the weapon around the horse without killing yourself or the animal.