The language of verbal components

[Ranes]

Is Draconic?

Here's why I'm confused about this. Divine and arcane casters - anyone - can have the spellcraft skill, which enables them to understand what another caster's casting, by interpreting the somatic, material and verbal components in use. But these spellcraft users don't need to be fluent in Draconic. I can't find it now but I thought there was a reference in the core rules to the effect that Draconic was the language of magic (hence the wizard's choice of Draconic as a bonus language).

If it is Draconic, then are the verbal components actually fragments of Draconic that non-Draconic-speaking spellcrafters only understand in terms of their immediate context?

Are divine casters speaking the same hypothetical Draconic fragments? Or are they using fragments of Celestial, Abyssal or Infernal?

I know that an arcane caster cannot use a divine scroll and vice-versa, but a cleric or a wizard (or anyone with sufficient UMD skill) could decipher the writing of any scroll. That suggests that both types of scroll use the same language elements but that they use them in profoundly different ways.

If all scrolls are written in Draconic, do Draconic-illiterate spellcrafters and UMDers only understand the Draconic elements insofar as their pronunciation?

I apologise if these questions have come up before and I've missed them. I'd appreciate thoughts and pointers.

Thanks.

 

[calypso15]

I'd appreciate thoughts and pointers.

char *buf;

Calypso

(Oh fine... I've always gone with... divine and arcane spells use fragments of draconic, they just use them in profoundly different ways. And while one can vaguely understand the other, it's iffy at best. It'd be like if I told a gardener to do a depth-first search of a tree, starting at the root... he'd get out a shovel. We both speak the same language, we just mean different things.

EDIT: Sidenote... IMC I increase the DC of spellcraft checks if an arcanist wants to identify a divine spell, and vice-versa.)

 

[Ranes]

Thanks.

I appreciate the pointers.

 

[Ranes]

Just thought: arcane and divine casters can counterspell each other, which also suggests they use the same verbal components.

 

[JimAde]

Calypso, you are bent. I especially like the fact that you can read that first part as a Bull's Strength spell (Character buff).

In my game, I don't say that casters are speaking Draconic. I assume they are saying words that have inherent magical power, but are not part of any real language. Mages like Draconic because the dragons were the original great mages, and it's a matter of tradition. Plus mages from different parts of the world can share knowledge with a shared, neutral language.

 

[Ranes]

I assume they are saying words that have inherent magical power, but are not part of any real language.

Which is what a Dracon-illiterate spellcrafter, UMDer or even caster might think, if the words spoken or written were, in fact, Draconic.

I acknowledge your interpretation though.

Does anyone else share Jim's view or have any other theories?

 

[The Human Target]

yeah, those rules really dont make a whole lotta sense so its best to just go with what u feel is best.Draconic is just a language used in many spellbooks and books of magic theory. The actual language of magic is just.......gobbly gook. House rules are the way to go.

 

[atom crash]

IMC, the language of magic is an older form of Draconic. I haven't exactly mapped everything out, but I've at least decided it's the one true language, the original language. Let's call it Old Draconic, or Arcane Draconic, and think of it like Latin. Spellcasters will have seen the words written but might not know how to pronounce them, because the language is no longer in common usage.

Spellcasters would study these written language fragments in order to understand magic in theory and practice (like doctors and lawyers have to learn some Latin in order to understand their professions), but I don't think it would count as a legit language skill because so much of the language has been lost. Their ability to decipher the written form would be reflected in their Spellcraft ranks.

The Draconic language that dragons (and kobolds and educated mages) speak is a modified version of the arcane tongue. Let's call it Modern Draconic. Understanding the modern form will help in deciphering the ancient form.

It's like the difference between Old English and Modern English. And I'm not talking malt liquor and an 80s pop band.

I don't like the idea that the lowly kobold speaks the same language as the lofty wizard and the lordly dragon.

 

[Tonguez]

IMC it is not the words that matter but the 'tones' ie the sound waves' produced when a particular verbal component is used. Bards don't even use Verbal components but their instruments do produce the correct soundwave. The great mystery is that regardless of the language being spoken the tones are the same and blend together (so a soellcaster speaking Draconic, a Cleric speaking Celestial a Gnome speaking High Gnomish and a Bard playing a Tuba would be using four deifferently languages (including tuba) which as they chant blend into a single sound)

Thats why they can all understand the words (they hear the tone and their brain converts it to a recognised word) same as reading scrolls - they read the tone and their brain fills in the words (except its not so easy that way)

 

[JimAde]

I really like that. And if you go further and say the magic is actually due to the caster's response to the sound, it helps explain why some spells don't have verbal components, and some casters can get by without them (with Still Spell). In those cases, the caster is able to enter the correct mental state without the sound "trigger".

It's like the difference between Old English and Modern English. And I'm not talking malt liquor and an 80s pop band.