The LONG wait ends - 'Girl Genius Sourcebook and Roleplaying Game - Powered by GURPS' has been released!

[Willie the Duck]

I use D&D as a comparison because it's currently the most popular game. It also provides an interesting contrast because contemporary D&D claims to be "streamlined," use "natural language," and support "rulings not rules."

Despite having a lot of possible rules, the core tenets of GURPS are simple and intuitive. The writing and indexing of the books makes it mostly easy to find what you want. (There are a few areas that I think could be arranged differently.) Because there does exist a framework for how to handle most things, I've also found that I have an intuitive idea of how to handle a lot of situations- even when I'm not using a lot of the rules.

I've found that GURPS actually succeeds in being modular (a design goal of a lot of modern games) and works for someone who wants jump distance as well as someone who doesn't care about exact jump distance. The system is built in such a way that either approach works - without breaking other parts of the game. Even if you don't want exact distance, there may be times when it's important to compare how far two different characters made it; that could be done either with precise calculation or with a more narrative use of margin of success.

My belief is that a lot of the negative stereotypes about GURPS stem from using the system in a manner that isn't how it's actually designed to be used.

It's not a perfect game. Even as someone who enjoys it, I recognize that it has strengths and weaknesses. At the same time, a lot of typical claims I see others make about what GURPS can or can't do seem wildly inaccurate compared to my experiences with the game and my experiences in teaching the game to others.

Maybe the games you mentioned might work wonders. I admittedly don't know. Personally, I think Fate is good but sometimes lacks depth or an ability to achieve granularity during situations when it's needed -but it does work relatively well for a group which cares very little for details. I don't think I've heard of the others (except maybe Wushu) until now.

I don't know what to tell you. It seems like any discussion with you will be one where I have the preemptive burden of also carrying water for these nebulous 'typical claims' that are 'wildly inaccurate' 'negative stereotypes.' I don't know about the rest of the participants in this thread, but I for one don't feel the need to take on that task. Mind you, I'm a little burned out on nerd culture right now with gaming social media as a particular bad point (and 'self-declared victim status of oneself or thing of which one is a fan' being a key component), so I might not be the best person to be doing this right now.

From what I've seen, nearly every nerd thing absolutely has a group of haters who are completely unfair in their criticism of the thing, along with a group a super-devoted ultra-fans who always have an explanation of how any criticism of said thing is unfair and any criticism must be something along the lines of 'using the system in a manner that isn't how it's actually designed to be used' or similar. Personally, I would prefer we stick to the things actually said in this thread rather than re-litigate what may or may not have been said by these apparent bad actors with their ignorant and unfair critiques.

I do agree that GURPS will work for someone who wants jump distance as well as someone who doesn't care about exact jump distance, it just doesn't provide any real benefit over any other potential system in such a situation (it's a neutral grade, in that situation).

 

[Argyle King]

I don't know what to tell you. It seems like any discussion with you will be one where I have the preemptive burden of also carrying water for these nebulous 'typical claims' that are 'wildly inaccurate' 'negative stereotypes.' I don't know about the rest of the participants in this thread, but I for one don't feel the need to take on that task. Mind you, I'm a little burned out on nerd culture right now with gaming social media as a particular bad point (and 'self-declared victim status of oneself or thing of which one is a fan' being a key component), so I might not be the best person to be doing this right now.

From what I've seen, nearly every nerd thing absolutely has a group of haters who are completely unfair in their criticism of the thing, along with a group a super-devoted ultra-fans who always have an explanation of how any criticism of said thing is unfair and any criticism must be something along the lines of 'using the system in a manner that isn't how it's actually designed to be used' or similar. Personally, I would prefer we stick to the things actually said in this thread rather than re-litigate what may or may not have been said by these apparent bad actors with their ignorant and unfair critiques.

I do agree that GURPS will work for someone who wants jump distance as well as someone who doesn't care about exact jump distance, it just doesn't provide any real benefit over any other potential system in such a situation (it's a neutral grade, in that situation).

I don't feel you, as a person, have any extra burden. Though, I'll own up to admitting that I may have made assumptions based on what seem to be the usual talking points I've seen from detractors of the game system.

Overall, I think you have a fair point of view.

I feel similarly about some applications of the d20 system. Many people claim it works just as well for modern combat or gritty sword & sorcery as it does for D&D.

In terms of Girl Genius, I'm unfamiliar with the history of the setting. I've picked up from other posts that Phil & Kaja Foglio -the authors of the comic- have done work related to GURPS before, so I'm optimistic they'll have an idea of how they'd like the product to work.

Reading more on the setting, I'm intrigued to see what is in the book. I've had some similar ideas for a game I want to run. Picking up Girl Genius in GURPS format so that I can see the mechanical approach they've taken to doing the setting is of interest to me.

 

[MGibster]

"Fantasy" is not about "fantastical", and "punk" isn't about "having punks".

You can take up the punk comment with Kaja Foglio if you'd like. I was simply explaining how the phrase gaslight fantasy came to be. As for the fantastical, well, I try to avoid pedantry when it comes to genres and descriptions. If that's a hill you want to die on then I wish you luck.

 

[Argyle King]

From the descriptions I've read online:

-Wikipedia-

"Gaslamp fantasy (also known as gaslight fantasy or gaslight romance) is a subgenre of both fantasy and historical fiction. Generally speaking, this particular realm of fantasy employs either a Victorian or Edwardian setting. The gaslamp fantasy genre is not to be confused with steampunk, which is often set in the same historical era but usually has more of a super-science edge and uchronic tone. Gaslamp fantasy also differs from classical...

...Many of its tropes, themes, and stock characters derive from Gothic literature—a long-established genre composed of both romantic and horrific traits and motivated by the desire to rouse fear, apprehension, and other intense emotions within the reader—and could be described as an attempt to modernize literary Gothicism."

-tvtropes.org-

"...The key difference between gaslamp fantasy and steampunk is that steampunk focuses on alternate developments in technology (and need not have any magic at all), while gaslamp fantasy focuses on supernatural elements (and need not have any technology that didn't actually exist). Yet, the two can overlap, especially with Magitek and in Phlebotinum-Induced Steampunk."

-nypl.org-

"...'Gaslamp Fantasy' is essentially a sub-genre of Steampunk Fantasy. But, whereas Steampunk often involves gadgets and mad scientists in an alternate Victorian universe, Gaslamp stories are set in a magical version of the 19th century, think Jane Austen or Charles Dickens meets Harry Potter. The stories can take place at any time between the Regency Era (early 1800s) all the way up to the beginning of WWI (1914). You'll find historical settings, gothic ambience, ballrooms, wit and romance, witches, dark magic, fairies and all manner of supernatural creatures but very little science..."

That sounds pretty cool. I can mentally picture how that's different enough from Steampunk to be considered something else.

 

[dbm]

The Foglios and SJ Games go way-back. They illustrated the GURPS IOU book, originally published in 1995, and this is the first place that Agatha Heterodyne appeared, six years before the start of the Girl Genius web comic.

I have GURPS Girl Genius and I’ve read it. It’s a pretty good trimmed down implementation of GURPS, and reduces the options and level of precision whilst keeping the full breadth of stuff that GURPS can cover. It is 100% compatible from a rules perspective, so if someone wanted to add in more GURPS material that would be easy to do.

Interestingly, there are no magic rules, just rules for The Spark. These follow the core GURPS invention rules but they are trimmed from a five stage process down to two stages, meaning that the mechanics of invention can be handled in as little as two rolls if your character is good, and the probability of success seems a little higher than in the base rules which serves the game conceit.

If you are a Girl Genius fan then the material is good, with some history I’ve never seen before and lots of other information collected for the first time. It’s worth it for that alone I suspect.

As a GURPS player for about 30 years it isn’t the first system I would choose for a game like Girl Genius, but it does a decent job of it. I can see the attraction to a system like Fate or even Cortex but since my group bounce-hard off both those systems that would mean I never got to play it.

 

[Umbran]

As for the fantastical, well, I try to avoid pedantry when it comes to genres and descriptions.

Dude, this is not okay. If you don't want to engage with a point, that's fine.

It is NOT fine to lay behind the cloud of insulting implication for others who are merely engaging with the thing you started.

Treat people better.

 

[MGibster]

ude, this is not okay. If you don't want to engage with a point, that's fine.

It is NOT fine to lay behind the cloud of insulting implication for others who are merely engaging with the thing you started.

Treat people better.

You need to take your own advice as I interpreted your initial pithy reply as treating me like garbage. If you had offered an explanation for why fantastical doesn't mean fantasy or punk doesn't need punks then I would have interpreted your post far more charitably. From my point of view, rather than engage with the thing I started, you just swooped in to tell me I was wrong and left it at that.

So, yes. Treat people better.

 

[Voadam]

There was a period when I was seriously considering 3e GURPS lite as an option for my system of choice, I felt it gave great skill options and handled 10 hp D&D type characters well (when PCs designed for characters with at least a bit of combat skill) with a ton of flexibility and options. Ultimately I didn't go with it as I prefer a little higher level D&D type feel and stuck with running D&D.

Now I am fairly off of point buy systems where combat power can be wildly different between equal point characters and social and narrative aspects use the same point pool as combat aspects.

I still have a ton of GURPS sourcebooks and use them in my non-GURPS games. I have enjoyed the Girl Genius comics and world but I have not read all the comics. This is in the category of neat, maybe I will pick it up some day but no rush for me.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Well, if someone is interested on the take on the product by someone who never played GURPS and has no prior exposure or expectation regarding the system (and who, obviously, hasn't used the product in actual play situation)... I'll give an opinion on the different chapters without following their order in the book in order to present my overall opinion better


1. Chapter 8 : adventuring (4 pages)

This chapter aims at presenting what characters do in a GG campaign. That's a very interesting chapter but it suffers from not being 20 pages long and being near the beginning of the book. IMHO, one of the draw of playing in a litterary setting instead of a homebrew is to emulate the feel of what happens to the main cast of character. Part of the elements come from the sourcebook on the world, but a specific section on how to build adventure is welcome. It is interesting and gives good ideas, but aims at integrating all kind of stories into the GG world. If you want to play an adventure about X, then a good fit would to have a group starting this way and engaging with the setting from there. I feel more emphasis could have been put on the main themes of the GG story, especially if one or more players doesn't know the GG universe and doesn't feel like reading 20 years worth of (excellent, free) comic to catch up.

The chapter also advises to set the realism level to fit the tone of the campaign. Somehow, I felt this is a decision that should have been made by the designer. I suppose it's possible to have gritty adventures set in the GG world, but is this the tone one expects when reading the comic? Do you want to hesitate to engage in fights because life is precious? I felt most of the cast, especially sparks, could withstand having a flying castle dropped on their head and live...

2. Chapter 1, 2, 3 : the world (50 pages)

These chapters present the world, its situation, history, in a clear and fun to read way. It presents information in a concise way, giving a better understanding of the setting (even after reading the comic, where information is scattered). It reaches its goal of explaining the world, its difference with ours so the GM can fill in the blank as necessary and fit the mood of the GG world. The subsection on religion, for example, does it very well, expanding on the few mentions of religious building and institutions in the comic to integrate this in a worldbuilding advice.
It also present the main movers and shakers: characters from the comic, with their stats and descriptions.

3. Chapter 7 : the spark and technology (25 pages)

This chapter details how to deal with Sparks and their creation. It's mostly in the hand of the GM, with a table to adjudicate the resources needed to build something. Saying that it shouldn't break the limit of established Spark creation when you have Castle Wulfenbach or Castle Heterodyne in the table, that time travel and nuclear weapons are a thing (apparently, the Rome-Carthage War was ended by a Roman spark destroying most of north africa, leaving a dead zone to this day...) is difficult (but part of the charm). It's difficult to adjudicate mechanically without clear limits. We know it's possible to build an Agatha-approved portable death ray, at the second level of difficulty on the table, but will it have stats akin to a lightning gun, a heavy pistol or a Jäger rifle? This treatment makes me think a lightweight game system would have been better suited, as a superficial impression.

4. Chapter 4, 5, 6 : character creation and rules

The game provide several templates to help building characters. And a few advice littered, like the names, or the fact that few fight to the death and that bad guy prefer to gloat instead of killing their foes, that helps set the mood. On the other hand, reading this chapters (especially the rules one) reinforced my feeling about the system being overtly realistic/simulationist for a fast and loose game I image reflecting the theme of the comic. I know it's just a feeling at this point, but while some advantage are very adapted, like the Gizmo one that let you have gear that you probably should have on your person if it's fitting with archetype, some parts of the system are more grounded in reality... with the chapter ending with a falling damage according to distance. I'd need to see it in play to see how it goes.



TL;DR: excellent and fun sourcebook for the world, good playing advice that could be expanded upon greatly, interesting attempt to encompass more themes that the one fitting, in my opinion, the comics, and a system that doesn't feel exactly fitting but that need to be confirmed in play.

I am satisfied with my purchase even if I end up not using the system.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

(...In PDF. A physical release is getting the Kickstarter treatment at a later date).

Yes! After nineteen years of waiting, the GURPS-based adaptation of Phil & Kaja Foglio's seminal Steam- er, Gaslamp Fantasy webcomic series to tabletop gaming!

Offical News Post: Daily Illuminator: Do The Impossible With The Girl Genius Sourcebook And Roleplaying Game!

Honestly astonished it took this long. GURPS basically taught me who the Foglios were (and that their art was fun), with GURPS Illuminati University, so I'm unsurprised by the system choice, though, yeah absolutely it is not the system I'd pick for this (or IOU) now, in 2021 (Apocalypse World-based would be my first thought).