THe mage and my new power point system

[Ace]

Here is the power point system I am going to try in my next game.

It is inspired by Rolemaster, Umbragia, Some of my early efforts and the system used by a local GM Dave Bazlog

I am also converting the other classess but for now this is my Arcane caster class.

This isyetm will work with regular D$D, Shock point (Ala d20 modern) and Grim N Gritty equally well

The Sorcerer and Wizard are rolled into one class-- The Mage.

A mage has the normal abilities of a wizard, the simple weapons feat and wizard bonus feats. He must choose 1 prime attribute either Charisma or Intellegence.

There is no prepping of spells. Instead a mage learns spells as she can find them.
The training of each level will gain the Mage access to three 3 new spells
Additional spells are learned through study and if available may be purchased at 100 per level
Note that there are no scribing costs.

Skill list are as follows
If Charisma is chosen his skill list is Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Profession (Wis), Scry (Int, exclusive skill), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidation (CHa) Bluff (Cha) Knwledge Arcana (Int) 2 Extra Knowledges (Int)and Spellknowing (Cha)

If Intellegence is his chosen ability the list is
are Alchemy (Int), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Scry (Int, exclusive skill), Gadgetry (Int) Alchemy (Int) and Spellcraft (Int)

Instead of spells per day the Mage has Mana points

Mana points are calculated as
total of all spells per day (as Wizard) + 1 pt per spell level available each day.

Frex:
6th level mage: 16 Cha prime attribute--
his power pool is

Total spells 4,3,3, 2 =12+
Total Levels
4 x 0 +3 x 1+ 3 x 2+ 2 x 3= 27+
Bonus spell
1 l0 + 1 l1 +1 l2 +1 l3= total of 33

Each spell cost level+meta magic feat + 1
Offensive spells cost an additional +1 per die inflicted (max as usual)
Thus a fifth level fireball costs 9 points
OTOH a powerword kill costs only 10 (of course you have to be 17th level and have a prime attribute of 19 to cast it)

To use a Meta magic feats you must be able to cast a spell of the spell level +meta magic feat

E.G.-- 10 die maximized lightning bolt requires a 13th level caster and costs 3+1+10+4 a whopping 18 points.

A Meteor Swarm cost 34!! (9+1+24)

There are minor changes to a few feats but thats the basics---

Feedback?

 

[Billiarmus]

Well, let's see if i can kick-start this thread with it's first post

As for your magic system, the points seem a little low. I vaguely recall a 2nd edition magic system w/ a good amount of points that would seem to work well with your ideas on approximate costs. Now, you'd have to factor in bonus spells and such, but i think it might be a starting point.

C'mon, enworlders, pull out those books and thinking caps and let's see if we can get this man some numbers to work with

 

[vturlough]

Scale?

I have always liked some sort of point or mana system compared to memorizing. Just me.

What about this?

Spells learned and prime attribute, as Ace posted.

Spell costs = (Spell level + 1) ^ 2 (squared)
0 = 1
1 = 4
2 = 9
3 = 16
4 = 25
etc.

Points per level = (level + Att mod) ^ 2

The problem is that the number of points gets very big, very quick! Also, with points, does this mean that metamagic can be done as soon as they have enough points? Can't figure that out.

I do think that as soon as they can cast it based on points for that "level", they can learn it. No "hindrance" based on level to learn a spell. What this does is allow the smarter mages to figure out higher levels spells faster, which makes sense.

For example, a 5th level mage with an INT of 20 has (5 + 5)^2 = 100 points. This means that he could attempt a 9th level spell!

Okay, how about this? they can attempt any spells but spells that cost more than ((level + 1) / 2 + 1) ^ 2 would have a chance to backfire, causing damage to the caster. So, our 5th level mage can only cast spells that cost ((5 + 1) / 2 + 1) ^ 2 = 16 points. Anything higher than that, might cause a problem.

Another example is this: A quickened spell, four levels higher, would make a magic missile go from 4 points to 36 points! That seems to be a reasonable trade. Except that an 8th level caster (with an 18 INT) has (8 + 4)^2 = 144 points!

Maybe this has to be raw ability, measured by pure attribute. So, only level bonuses (and maybe inherent for the books) count in the equation? So, no enhancement bonuses count in figuring out spells points.

Also, this does open up items, as in psionics, that store magical energy to give to a caster. It could also set up pockets of energy that a caster could "siphon" off to power his spells.

Hmm. Most of this was off the top of my head but perhaps it gets us going someplace? This is also probably getting too complicated but to make a change like this would require *some* complication.

turlough

 

[vturlough]

Other note

My system just based on math, does this:

Allows a LOT more low level casting with fewer high level spells.

Example:

20th level caster, 24 INT

Points = (20 + 7) ^ 2 = 729 points.

Since it is a geometric scale, this would allow the following:

0 level spells = 729 castings.
1 level spells = 182 castings.
2 level spells = 81 castings
3 level spells = 45 castings
4 level spells = 29 castings
5 level spells = 20 castings
6 level spells = 14 castings
7 level spells = 11 castings
8 level spells = 9 castings
9 level spells = 7 castings

This is max for those levels, assuming casting nothing else, which wouldn't happen. My point is that with this system, they would not be able to cast as many spells overall as they used to before being out of mana. The trade off, of course, is the flexibility to cast any known spell just by using mana.

Again, there are some really good low level spells that constantly casting will probably eventually kill the monster.

For example, 29 stoneskins, 45 fireballs, 182 magic missiles, etc. Again, though, with meta magic feats and variety based on spell level, it might balance out. Have to play it to see.

turlough

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

I'd suggest coopt the Psion. Just give them intelligence as a prime stat, and change the discipline powers to normal powers if they arn't a specialist.

 

[Ace]

Thanks for the feedback all!

I calculated the point costs exactly as if Wizards spells per day were converted into power points.

I have playtested this in a matter of speaking, well the second edition anyway during a 1 shot Diablo Dungeon crawl--

The results were pretty good except that the mage basically was a magic missle machine gun--- I just didn't want, say a second and third level spell to become 5 magic missles spells per day so I implimted the extra "blast spell' cost

It also tweaks the flavor and encourages more "subtle" uses of magic.

For a more "Zap" friendly game just drop the extra cost.

As it is in the standard rules a wiz5 can cast 4/3/2/1 or 10 spells per day plus appropriate bonus spells

In the power point system he has 4+6+6+4 or 20 spell point worth of spells plus appropriate bonus for stats bonus.

This basically number of spells per level x spell level +1

The costs are spell level +1

Under my system he can do less zapping (5 three die magic missles or 2 five die fireballs) or more low level stuff (10 armor spells) or the exact same amount of regular non attack spells

If you drop the "Zap" penalty our mage can do 5 fireballs or even 10 magic missle spells (ouch)

I think if I were to use this system in a more regular version of D&D instead of the lower powered version I plan to I would drop the extra "zap" cost

 

[Vaxalon]

I'd suggest coopt the Psion. Just give them intelligence as a prime stat, and change the discipline powers to normal powers if they arn't a specialist.

Precisely. Why reinvent the wheel?

Psions are already balanced, already have a dandy mechanic.

 

[hong]

Precisely. Why reinvent the wheel?

Psions are already balanced, already have a dandy mechanic.

However, psions are balanced on the assumption that they'll have at least a few psionic feats that require PPs to activate. If you take the feats out of the equation, you might have to reduce the number of PPs they get per day. Or, given that people seem to think that psions are underpowered, maybe you don't. Either way, you'd still have to think about how many PPs would be appropriate.

Does anyone have any ideas on how they calculated the PPs per level for the psionic classes?

 

[Vaxalon]

No, they're not. Psions aren't required to take psionic feats. You don't have to reduce the PP's if you remove the psionic feats.

Why would you want to remove the psionic feats, BTW?

 

[hong]

No, they're not. Psions aren't required to take psionic feats. You don't have to reduce the PP's if you remove the psionic feats.

Psions may not be _required_ to take psionic feats, but the feats exist, and it would be logical to assume their existence went into the calculations for how many PPs to give out.

Why would you want to remove the psionic feats, BTW?

Because you're not using psionics?