The Magic-Walmart myth

[Raven Crowking]

You mean you've never heard someone use Steampunk as a put-down to a setting or style? I've heard it quite a bit. As far as D&D goes I've heard it used as a derogatory term a lot in conjunction with Eberron.

I've heard it as a descriptive, but not as a slap. Someone might say "I don't care for Steampunk" but that doesn't make it a slap. There has to be something inherently negative in the connotation of the term, IMHO, for it to be a slap.

You are correct in that anything and everything can be used as an insult and a put down and quite often it is. Telling something that they are 'great' and 'excellant' can be a put down if it said in a sarcastic tone of voice. It's absolutely scary how good people are at cutting others down.

But that makes neither of those terms a "slap"; it only makes the usage a slap.


RC

 

[Hussar]

Har har. Ok, pull the other one, it's got bell's on it RC.

English is a wonderful language with all sorts of connotations. When you use a shorthand word that carries negative connotations, even if you don't mean them, it is still likely to be seen as derogatory, regardless of intent.

A paladin't mount is easily summonable and goes away when not needed - a pokemount

Shadowfax is easily summonable and goes away when not needed - a pokemount.

So, what's the beef with saying that Shadowfax is pretty much identical to a paladin's mount? The end result is the same. Yet, you went on at great lengths to disprove that Shadowfax could possibly be interpreted as a pokemount. I recall polls even.

A fair number of people have chimed in here to say that they find the term derogatory. It doesn't matter if you think it is or not. To them it is. It's a slap against playstyle. To them. To me as well. That you don't mean it that way is irrelevant. That's how it's being interpreted. Thus, either you can continue to use the term, knowing that people will associate it with wrongbadfun style posts or pick a different shorthand.

 

[Quasqueton]

Someone might say "I don't care for Steampunk" but that doesn't make it a slap.

What makes something like that a "slap" is when the reference isn't actually as described.

In reference to Raven Crowking's posts: "I don't have the patience to read the ramblings of a 12 year old." Would that be a "slap" or merely a harmless mistake equating your opinion to that of a 12 year old? Afterall, we've all been 12 years olds, so there's nothing insulting about being a 12 year old, right?

Quasqueton

 

[Nellisir]

The OP's point was, stated in list form for easy understanding:

No, no, no, that wasn't it at all! Did you even read the first post? You have no idea what the OP is asking!

 

[Nellisir]

I don't really want to get into a long debate about what terms are derogatory and which aren't, but I personally don't consider anime, steampunk, dungeonpunk, Tolkienesque, or magitech in the same category as "magic Wal-Mart". To me, they're generally neutral terms that describe a style of setting, without an emotional content. Those styles of play may not be very popular in some locales, but the term itself is neutral. I've seen all of them (with the exception of "Tolkienesque") in advertising for products.

 

[Raven Crowking]

So, what's the beef with saying that Shadowfax is pretty much identical to a paladin's mount? The end result is the same. Yet, you went on at great lengths to disprove that Shadowfax could possibly be interpreted as a pokemount. I recall polls even.

Pokemount was defined differently in those threads.

The argument was based (from my end, anyway) on the idea that, if one wanted the paladin's mount to represent Shadowfax, that there were better game mechanics to do it with than the ones provided in the SRD. I even rewrote the Paladin's mount so that it had what I saw as the same essential features as the current one (i.e., there when you need it, not in danger when you do not) while removing the things I saw as problematical (disappearing to another plane, instantaneous arrival anywhere).

My version, for example, could not be summoned in Moria, nor could it simply disappear with the Ring into another plane (thus keeping it out of the reach of Sauron forever), and it took a short (but existent) period of time to arrive when called.

It wasn't an argument about the term pokemount, it was an argument about whether or not the specifics of pokemounts as described in D&D were the best possible description of pokemounts as seen in literature.

Again, at least from my side.

RC


EDIT: There was also a sub-argument about whether or not the Paladin's mount was the best SRD description of Shadowfax. Ex: Would Shadowfax as he appears in the novel be better described as an Animal Companion in the game?

 

[Raven Crowking]

In reference to Raven Crowking's posts: "I don't have the patience to read the ramblings of a 12 year old." Would that be a "slap" or merely a harmless mistake equating your opinion to that of a 12 year old? Afterall, we've all been 12 years olds, so there's nothing insulting about being a 12 year old, right?

Honestly, I'm not sure. It requires context.

EDIT: Although, if there were any term in there with negative connotations, as I read it, it would be "ramblings".

 

[Doug McCrae]

This thread itself shows that 'Magic Wal-Mart' is a poor term. It can mean so many different things:

1) A pejorative describing trade in magic items.
2) A neutral term for trade in magic items.
3) A pejorative for one-stop magic item shops.
4) A neutral term for one-stop magic item shops.

I'm not convinced that (2) and (4) exist, but if they do, then that makes the term worse, not better, as it has a less precise meaning.

'Magic shops' has a similar difficulty as it can also refer to (2) or (4) but at least it's not as negative.

 

[Raven Crowking]

'Magic shops' has a similar difficulty as it can also refer to (2) or (4) but at least it's not as negative.

Why can't "magic shops" be used equally for all four? Why is the term not as negative? It seemed to be used so by some posters on the "Does Your World Have Magic Shops" type threads some time ago.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Why can't "magic shops" be used equally for all four? Why is the term not as negative?

Wal-Mart suggests, to me, a big store that sells everything, which is a bit more implausible than multiple shops.

We don't have Wal-Marts in the UK (though the company took over the ASDA chain here), so despite my pontificating in this thread, I'm one of the least qualified posters to talk about what the term implies.