The Magic-Walmart myth

[Ourph]

Ok, I'm not sure if you're just yanking my chain or not. How about this for a reaction then:

Shadowfax was a pokemount.

Should be no problems since pokemount is simply a shorthand for a mount that is easily available when needed and goes away when not. Describes Shadowfax perfectly.

I agree. It's a perfectly good analogy and anyone who knows what a Pokemon is and knows anything about the way Shadowfax is portrayed in LotR would have a pretty difficult time arguing that there aren't significant similarities. If this is supposed to illustrate why "Magic Wal-marts" are inaccurate or offensive, I'm afraid I'm missing the point.

 

[Felix]

I agree. It's a perfectly good analogy and anyone who knows what a Pokemon is and knows anything about the way Shadowfax is portrayed in LotR would have a pretty difficult time arguing that there aren't significant similarities.

"There arnen't significant similiarities."

No, not difficult at all to say.

Unless by "signigicant" you mean, "cosmetic".

 

[maddman75]

In a fantasy game, cosmetics make all the difference. By changing the 'flavor text' you can signifigantly change the game experience.

The problem with the 'pokemount', from my perspective, is that it describes the paladin as summoning the creature from another plain. Suddenly, my holy knights with some minor magical talents became conjurers. I would mind a Shadowfax mechanic much less, that the paladin's mount would take off when not needed, and quickly show up when called. The default mechanic involves a templar opening a portal to another plane, something I do not want in my games.

The real issue with 'magi-marts' isn't the magic items availability, its their mundaneness. When everything is quantified and magic swords are not items of legend but a collection of properties, it makes it just another piece of gear. It isn't thought of as any more different or special than the long sword he bought for 15 gp at first level, except its higher quality.

This is what people don't like when they complain about magi-marts. Magic items that feel like technology, not magic.

 

[Quasqueton]

No, no, no, that wasn't it at all! Did you even read the first post? You have no idea what the OP is asking!

Apparently, the OP has no relevance to the discussion.

Quasqueton

 

[Ourph]

"There arnen't significant similiarities."

No, not difficult at all to say.

Unless by "signigicant" you mean, "cosmetic".

Shadowfax is a fictional character in a fantasy story (i.e. there is no real life equivalent we can use for comparison). Since the only information we have about Shadowfax is descriptive fiction, how can any similarity Shadowfax shares with something else be anything other than "cosmetic"? :\

 

[Ourph]

Wal-Mart suggests, to me, a big store that sells everything, which is a bit more implausible than multiple shops.

What is the difference between every magic item a PC wants to purchase being available in one store and every magic item being available in one city with the actual shopping handwaved?

I'm still failing to see why the distinction between one store and multiple stores is important to the discussion if the end result is exactly the same.

 

[ThirdWizard]

What is the difference between every magic item a PC wants to purchase being available in one store and every magic item being available in one city with the actual shopping handwaved?

I'm still failing to see why the distinction between one store and multiple stores is important to the discussion if the end result is exactly the same.

Did you miss the example above about the difference between handwaving travel and teleporting being commonplace in the campaign world? There's a huge difference in the two, and it is a perfect analogy to lots of curio shops being handwaved and a one stop shop for all magic item needs.

How about if the DM just gives away XP and gp during the weekly 5 minute session? It's the same as the PCs going out and doing adventures, right? Because, after all, the end result is the same.

 

[Doug McCrae]

What is the difference between every magic item a PC wants to purchase being available in one store and every magic item being available in one city with the actual shopping handwaved?

See post #169.

 

[Ourph]

Did you miss the example above about the difference between handwaving travel and teleporting being commonplace in the campaign world? There's a huge difference in the two, and it is a perfect analogy to lots of curio shops being handwaved and a one stop shop for all magic item needs.

No, but it still doesn't answer the question. Why is the distinction important to the discussion if the difference between transporters and hand-waved travel only exists in the DM's head? For the players and anyone else viewing the game from the outside the distinction doesn't exist.

How about if the DM just gives away XP and gp during the weekly 5 minute session? It's the same as the PCs going out and doing adventures, right? Because, after all, the end result is the same.

No, the end result is different because in one the players spend no real-world time playing the game, whereas in the other they do spend that time and they reap all the real-world benefits of doing so (having fun, gaining expertise at playing the game, getting to know their fellow players) and so do third parties (retailers and publishers who sell the players dice, books, pencils, paper, snacks, etc.).

In fact, this is a perfect illustration of what I'm talking about. There are distinctions you can make that have an actual impact on the way the game is experienced in the real world, the difference between the literal definition of "Magic Wal-marts" and the figurative definition based on handwaving isn't one of them. There is no real-world difference between the two, so what makes that distinction important to anyone except (maybe) the DM who is creating the distinction for his own benefit in his head? And if he is the only person for whom the distinction is important, how is that relevant to this discussion?

See post #169.

I read your response. It doesn't really address the question I was asking. Sorry.

 

[Doug McCrae]

People care about the plausibility of their game worlds. Actual Wal-Marts are less plausible than handwaved Wal-Marts.