The Matrix

[Skrit]

I really don't have any idea where Smith fits into the story or excatly what he is, but here's my theory. If the Matrix is a computer generated world and all people inside Human or program are still programs (human mind is similar to a program in the matrix since it can be effected like a program). Wouldn't that make Smith a computer virus?? Any program he came into contact would be corupted into a version of himself. By Corupting someones mind in the same way he could then leave the matrix and do what he wanted in the "Real World".

If you wanted to go deeper...
If Neo was Christ wouldn't Smith be the Anti-Christ of the story. He was sort of the oppisite of Neo since he wanted to destroy everything.

As for the two "other" matrix movies. While the story was no where near as good as the first one the Visuals were superb. One of my favorite parts is where neo and smith collide at the end of the third movie and both get thrown back. Then Smith Rears up and makes an evil face with lighting crashing behind him.. That's just cool. Both movies also have pretty good action sequences, such as the Highway Scene, The Club scene in Reloaded, etc...

 

[Rackhir]

While I may well be about as much of a Highlander fanatic as there is (seen it several hundred times, though I'm not sure I still have it memorized), I will easily admit that as a movie it in no way compares quality wise with The Matrix. As such, the drop off from The Matrix to its sequels is pretty darned sharp. Granted probably not quite as bad as the fall to the abomination that was Highlander 2, but still it was a big fall from a lofty place to reach Reloaded.

buzzard

Personally, I never thought that the Matrix was anything other than a cool movie and most of what made it "cool" was really just a high tech version of the chinese martial arts Wuixia wire work that had been around for decades in HK. The "Philosophy" and "mind bending" concepts like "are we just brains in a box", were nothing that hadn't been around for decades in SF and well philosophy. The brain in a box concept dates back at least to Descartes "I think, thefore I am." in the 18th century. Also they just went for the "cool" in Matrix and didn't have to or try to explain too much. Some of what they did was just plain stupid. Humans as batteries was simply silly.

 

[buzzard]

Personally, I never thought that the Matrix was anything other than a cool movie and most of what made it "cool" was really just a high tech version of the chinese martial arts Wuixia wire work that had been around for decades in HK. The "Philosophy" and "mind bending" concepts like "are we just brains in a box", were nothing that hadn't been around for decades in SF and well philosophy. The brain in a box concept dates back at least to Descartes "I think, thefore I am." in the 18th century. Also they just went for the "cool" in Matrix and didn't have to or try to explain too much. Some of what they did was just plain stupid. Humans as batteries was simply silly.

Ok, there is no question that humans as batteries is out and out stupid, but in general the movie is well done.

buzzard

 

[Rackhir]

Ok, there is no question that humans as batteries is out and out stupid, but in general the movie is well done.

buzzard

The Matrix is one of the defining films of modern times, but not because of the script. So much stuff from this movie, especially in terms of the visual feel and style of sequences have become part and parcel of the visual vocabulary of movie making. You can show parodies or knock offs of so many scenes and it will be instantly recognizeable world wide as to what the source was.

But a lot of people want to hold it up as being something other than what it is, because it incorporates nods to philosophy and superficial postulations on the human condition. The scene where Agent Smith is torturing Morpheus and goes on his rant about how "Humans are the only creatures that don't instinctively seek a "balance" with nature", always makes me laugh because it is so stupid. There is no "instinctive" balance to anything in nature. The natural balance consists of exploiting the good times to the max and suffering in the bad times. Humans are just better at making the good times good and the bad times worse than other creatures.

I enjoyed the Matrix tremendously, the scene in the foyer of the building with all the guns when they went to rescue Morpheus was something I'd waited my entire life to see. But it's just a movie with some vague nods to philosphy wrapped up in a super cool-tight vinyl outfit and really cool looking shades. It is not War and Peace, it's not "The Interpretation of Dreams" and it's not even "When Bad Things Happen to Good People". It's just a really cool film and people shouldn't blast the sequels because they didn't happen to live up to their fantasy creations of how they were going to reveal the mysteries of the universe and teach us all to be as cool as Neo, Trinity and Morpheus.

 

[Aaron L]

Ok, there is no question that humans as batteries is out and out stupid, but in general the movie is well done.

buzzard

In the original script, and in the novelization, and several other places, humans are actually a large part of teh "hardware" that the machines use for processing power. They may think that theyre batteries, but theyre all actually wetware CPUs.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

In the original script, and in the novelization, and several other places, humans are actually a large part of teh "hardware" that the machines use for processing power. They may think that theyre batteries, but theyre all actually wetware CPUs.

I think this is an important point.

The humans could be *incredibly* wrong. They really don't have that much information, and have lost the vast majority of what they once knew.

Basically, if what the Architect said was true, the Matrix falls apart from time to time and then gets rebuilt. The "free" humans (who, really, exist only at the machines' sufferance) are wiped out, but because they perform the vital role of releasing malcontents, need to be re-constituted.

There are, of course, several problems with this:

1) Apparently, the Evil Cruel Machines, who use humans as batteries/wetware CPUs and don't bat an eyelash at slaughtering billions if needed, can't bring themselves to kill malcontents.

2) If there have been several cycles, the humans really should know *something* about it. The Architect mentioned that Neo would get to take Trinity and about 20 or so other humans and re-found Zion. None of these people know that they were already in the Matrix? Or are the least bit suspicious that they find all these nifty super-duper hovercraft? I find it kinda unlikely.

That said, I rather enjoyed Reloaded. It had some great fight scenes, after all. Revolutions, despite having mecha, was not terribly fun.

Brad

 

[Welverin]

Well, if I understand what they were telling us, "The One" arising indicates that the matrix is reaching a crisis point and will have to be rebooted. There was a lot of vague talk about The One being an attempt to balance the equation and some other double talk that didn't make a great deal of sense. >snip<

Smith becoming what he did is quite clearly linked to what Neo did to him. >snip some more<

The two most important conversations in the series for understanding what really was going on are Neo's conversations with the Architect in Reloaded (ch29-31, or check the attached file) and the one with the Oracle in Revolutions (ch7). I'd suggest watching both again, and paying close attention to what is done, turning on the subtitles might be a good idea.

The Architect reveals what is really going on, The One is nothing but a patch designed to prevent a cataclysmic systems crash (i.e. the more free/aware humans the bigger the problem), the prophecy of the One and the timeline as told to Neo in the first movie were part of the deception to keep the cycle going.

The real purpose of the One, of which there were five previous to the Neo we know, is to reset the Matrix and select twenty-one people from within the Matrix to repopulate Zion, which is destroyed every time, no matter what. The change in the cycle depicted in the movies is Neo’s love for humanity being focused on one person, Trinity, which forces him to find a different solution to the problem. The point at which the current iteration of the Matrix diverges from the previous ones, is when Neo chooses to walk through the door to his left to save Trinity instead of the one to his right and the source (remember: in the Matrix the left choice always leads to enlightenment, and the right choice leads to stagnation!).

Now, in Revolutions the Oracle tells Neo what Smith is, his opposite/ negative (The Negative One as I like to think of him), and thus gives a hint as to what needs to be done. Shortly after this talk Smith shows up and refers to the Oracle as mom, an indication that she created him, which fits nicely with her plan to break the cycle, end the war and bring real peace to the world.

The humans could be *incredibly* wrong. They really don't have that much information, and have lost the vast majority of what they once knew.

Oh, they are. The entire prophecy is a lie created by the machines as a form of control to keep humanity under control.

1) Apparently, the Evil Cruel Machines, who use humans as batteries/wetware CPUs and don't bat an eyelash at slaughtering billions if needed, can't bring themselves to kill malcontents.

They can, and they do regularly. Every time The One pops up, which I believe is Neo every time, Zion, and everyone in it, is destroyed.

2) If there have been several cycles, the humans really should know *something* about it. The Architect mentioned that Neo would get to take Trinity and about 20 or so other humans and re-found Zion. None of these people know that they were already in the Matrix? Or are the least bit suspicious that they find all these nifty super-duper hovercraft? I find it kinda unlikely.

Neo and Trinity weren’t part of the deal, and the people pick to resettle Zion would have been people who hadn’t been awakened. Remember the Myth as recounted by Morpheus in The Matrix start with a man who woke from the Matrix on his own, makes it rather easy to keep the previous events a secret from the humans.

 

[buzzard]

It's just a really cool film and people shouldn't blast the sequels because they didn't happen to live up to their fantasy creations of how they were going to reveal the mysteries of the universe and teach us all to be as cool as Neo, Trinity and Morpheus.

The reason I dislike the sequels has nothing to do with a lack of philosophical strength, or anything such. They simply lacked what made the original such an enjoyable movie.

I can remember seeing the Matrix for the first time when it came out. I believe it as the first weekend, and my D&D buddies talked me into seeing this movie which I hadn't even heard of. So we go take in this flick on a Friday night and I can remember afterwards simply thinking it was damned cool. Over analysis of the movie doesn't get you anywhere and simply puts more into it that is needed or desirable. What makes the Matrix great is the COOL factor. The movie is about image, style and pure unadulterated coolness.

You walked out of the original and said "Damn, that was bloody COOL!"

I walked out of the sequels and nothing of the sort was in my mind. They lost the cool factor. It's hard to quantify exactly where they went wrong, but as I see it the cool factor was lost. Maybe it was simply because they were sequels and the novelty was a core component of the cool. I don't know. However the sequels just didn't have it.

buzzard

 

[BrooklynKnight]

As for the two "other" matrix movies. While the story was no where near as good as the first one the Visuals were superb. One of my favorite parts is where neo and smith collide at the end of the third movie and both get thrown back. Then Smith Rears up and makes an evil face with lighting crashing behind him.. That's just cool. Both movies also have pretty good action sequences, such as the Highway Scene, The Club scene in Reloaded, etc...

Oh you're talking about Dragonball Z right?

 

[evildmguy]

Wow! Lots of good ideas and discussion! Thanks a lot!

Have a good one! Take care!

edg