The minuses of pluses, the pluses of minuses.

[ogre]

I had a thought after seeing the elf write up the other day... something didn't seem right. Then it hit me. All ability bonus and no penalty. That's different, but is it good? I'm thinking not.

First, it kinda strikes me as a 'grab' at a typical gamers desire to have a powerful character. Yay! bonus, bonus, no penalty, no hard choice. It's almost like they want to spin 4e to 'look' better than 3e, make it more desireable to the power gamer in us.

Second, having a penalty really made choosing a race, well... challenging. If you wanted to play an elf, you had to take the CON hit. So, it was a choice, but not one made lightly. Want the elf abilitites, well there is one drawback to deal with. I liked that. It's pretty much the same with all the 3e races, or even previous editions.

So, I'm thinking having an ability penalty for choosing a race other than human added something good to the game and I think I'm going to miss it.

 

[Incenjucar]

You should maybe wait until you actually see what humans can do before deciding they are less awesome than elves.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Opportunity costs aren't imaginary. Sure, you can be the elf, but that means you can't be the Dwarf or Human.

 

[Carnivorous_Bean]

Yes, it depends a lot on what the other races offer. And as far my own experience goes, both racial bonuses and penalties tend to become less and less important as characters advance in level, since they're essentially static.

 

[HeinorNY]

double post

 

[HeinorNY]

Don't worry, you'll still be able to generate a low ability score to put in CON if you find that kind of challenge fun.
I'd rather the save-the-princess, kill-all-the-orcs, fin-the-lost-artefact kind of challenge, so I'm happier now
Wasting a good score in CON when playing the elf to minimize the HP lost is not fun at all, IMO.

 

[Cadfan]

In addition to the obvious fact that there's opportunity costs involved, its also worth noting that more bonuses increase the space for design. Right now there's a small amount of variation available before you need a level adjustment. By increasing the availability of bonuses, you increase the variability between sets of bonuses.

And honestly if they really want to make a race with an ability score penalty, they still can. I don't know if they will, but they certainly can.

 

[TwinBahamut]

As Irda Ranger mentioned...

Opportunity Costs are a cost. For example, the biggest cost you have to face when going to college is the lost income from 4 years spent learning rather than working.

As long as the benefits given to each race are equal, it will always be a hard choice.

 

[ogre]

Good point on the opporunity cost, hadn't really considered that.
However, I still get the feeling it's all 'soda pop' and no 'beer' or to put it more succinctly, all edges no flaws.
If the proposed flaw is that you get this benefit instead of that benefit it's not much a flaw.
I like flaws.

 

[Incenjucar]

I think the idea is to have no bad choices.