The minuses of pluses, the pluses of minuses.

[The Ubbergeek]

Good point on the opporunity cost, hadn't really considered that.
However, I still get the feeling it's all 'soda pop' and no 'beer' or to put it more succinctly, all edges no flaws.
If the proposed flaw is that you get this benefit instead of that benefit it's not much a flaw.
I like flaws.

See it that way. Everyone have the same mediocre base. The bonus pulls the random Joe upward.

 

[Doug McCrae]

It's all relative.

Also for many 3e race/class choices there was no hard decision. For a wizard, strength is irrelevant, so gnome and halfling wizards have no drawback. For most classes, cha doesn't matter which is partly why dwarves are so good. Con is kind of a special case because all classes need it, but with the other five stats you can find several classes that don't care.

 

[ogre]

Incenjucar I think the idea is to have no bad choices.

Well, I guess there is a point there, that now you can run a dwarf sorceror or some other combo without starting off nerfed. But won't that just transition into 'why play a suboptimal dwarf cleric (assuming no Wis bonus) when I can play an elf cleric with a +2 Wis?'
Like Doug said, it's all relative. The +2 bonus becomes the standard, instead of a +0. So instead of being pigeon holed into not playing a race/class combo due to the penalty, you'll be pigeon holed into playing one due to the bonus. (assuming your optimizing)
Besides, the whole point of having a bonus is to set something apart from the norm (aka human). If everyone gets a bonus, what's the point?

 

[The Ubbergeek]

No race is similar to each other, still.

They have all something specialised for them. They have all a strenght.

 

[WayneLigon]

It may take some getting used to for me, but I don't think I'll miss it. I can't remember how many times I've thought "I'd like to play such and such race but with the stats I have, taking the required stat minus would basically be committing suicide," or "Well, I could live with the stat minus, but that means I wouldn't be able to take so and so feat, etc." I think it'll lead to us seeing more diverse racial mixups.

I'm pretty sure that large part of popularity of dwarves is that their stat minus is in Charisma and until 3E, who cared?

 

[Incenjucar]

Well obviously there is still sub-optimal, but the problems are in low stats, not in not-as-high-as-possible stats.

See: Elf wizard or half-orc bard, 3E style.

 

[kunadam]

In addition to the obvious fact that there's opportunity costs involved, its also worth noting that more bonuses increase the space for design. Right now there's a small amount of variation available before you need a level adjustment.

Let's see if there is net +4 bonus (I'm avoiding +4 to one stat, that it a no-no):

There is 15 combination of choosing 2 abilities to have +2 bonus each.
There is 60 combination of choosing 1 ability to have -2 and 3 to have +2
There is 15 combination of choosing 2 ability to have -2 and 4 to have +2
Sum=90 different race

net gain of +2

There is 6 combination of choosing 1 abilities to have +2 bonus.
There is 60 combination of choosing 1 ability to have -2 and 2 to have +2
There is 60 combination of choosing 2 ability to have -2 and 3 to have +2
Sum=126 different race

net gain of +0

There is 1 combination of not having any bonus or penalty.
There is 15 combination of choosing 1 abilities to have +2 bonus and one to have -2.
There is 90 combination of choosing 2 ability to have -2 and 2 to have +2
There is 20 combination of choosing 3 ability to have -2 and 3 to have +2
Sum=126 different race

Thus more space might not be behind the choice of 2 abilities having +2 (but my math might be flawed)

There is 30 combination of choosing 1 abilities to have -2 and one to have +2.

So there is more space for game design indeed.

 

[Jack99]

In 3e and all (?) of the previous editions (although to a lesser extend), elf was always the weakest choice, since HP's are king. They have done away with the penalty to that, and once again made elf a viable race.

Least I know I will be playing an elf again, after not playing one for 15 odd years.

To me, the removal of penalties enables us to make some roleplaying choices, without being penalized mechanically, at least not as much as in previous editions. And that is just pure pwnage

 

[Sitara]

Guys, face it. Humans are still going to own.

 

[frankthedm]

Disgusting. The Elf package was supposed to come at a cost. You got better vision, better senses and increased agility counterbalanced by being less durable by a measly 1 hp per level and one point less fort / death poison polymorph save. A perfectly reasonable trade if you used your bonuses. If the other party members insisted on clanking around, ignoring their surroundings, letting others get the drop on them and then rushing into melee wothout a second thought to missle weapons, then yes, your allies are devaluing your character.