The Monk isn't MAD... he's ENRAGED!!!!

[emoplato]

You know, outside of greater weapon focus... I don't think a fighter really has that significant of an advantage in hitting over the Monk.

A lvl 20 Monk is 15/15/15/10/5.

A lvl 20 fighter is 20/15/10/5.

Two rolls of +15 has to have a greater likelihood of landing a strike than a single roll of +20 in all but the worst of circumstances, and in the best of circumstances the Monk gets a bonus hit.

That single item put the Fighter's AC at the monk's highest base attack score. So, you are relying off pure luck and the fighter can afford to PA. Also, it really only works if the fighter allows the monk to have a full-attack action. A sword and board still have many options feat and item wise to deny the monk his full-attack action.

 

[Empath Negative]

That single item put the Fighter's AC at the monk's highest base attack score. So, you are relying off pure luck and the fighter can afford to PA. Also, it really only works if the fighter allows the monk to have a full-attack action. A sword and board still have many options feat and item wise to deny the monk his full-attack action.

We're not talking Versus. This isn't on the PvP server of World of Dungeoncraft.


In the cooperative RPG that D&D typically is... the discrepancy between the Fighter and the Monk is not significant and the Monk has a number of defenses the Fighter lacks.

 

[emoplato]

We're not talking Versus. This isn't on the PvP server of World of Dungeoncraft.


In the cooperative RPG that D&D typically is... the discrepancy between the Fighter and the Monk is not significant and the Monk has a number of defenses the Fighter lacks.

Well, it seemed a lot of people were talking about it in that way. However what I said still can apply to many opponents.

 

[the Jester]

We're not talking Versus. This isn't on the PvP server of World of Dungeoncraft.


In the cooperative RPG that D&D typically is... the discrepancy between the Fighter and the Monk is not significant and the Monk has a number of defenses the Fighter lacks.

You're overlooking feat selection. The fighter is going to have, what, about 7 feats more than the monk has?

You're also looking at this from a "not very optimized" perspective. A 20th level fighter's primary magic items aren't going to be armor and shield. Drop 'em a plus or two and invest in a brutally good weapon instead.

The fighter has a significant edge in attack bonus and hit points. And frankly, I think you're absolutely wrong about the monk's +15 attacks equalling the fighter's +20 attacks. In my experience, it isn't even close.

 

[Dandu]

Fighter can have a +5 weapon with additional enchantments on it totally up to +10 in value.

Monk gets an Amulet of Natural Weapons which grants him +5 fists and no special weapon properties. He also cannot have an Amulet of Health or Periapt of Wisdom.

 

[emoplato]

Fighter can have a +5 weapon with additional enchantments on it totally up to +10 in value.

Monk gets an Amulet of Natural Weapons which grants him +5 fists and no special weapon properties. He also cannot have an Amulet of Health or Periapt of Wisdom.

You are confusing that with the Amulet of Mighty Fists, the Necklace of Natural Attacks allows various enchantments. You are still right about lack of item slots though.

 

[kingius]

It's also significantly easier to get a fighter to high levels than it is to get a monk to high levels, as the monk is quite a lot more vulnerable at low levels than the fighter is. This is part of what makes these kind of comparisons moot: people often forget to even consider how easy it is to reach these levels with the said classes. This is why a lot of 'optimised' builds don't ever get realised in play; theory is one thing and reality another.

 

[James the Newbie]

Fighters also have martial weapon proficiency, so they atleast have the option of a stronger range offense than the monk, even if it is just them sinking just over 1000 gold into say a +8 strength master-work composite long bow. Add splitting to that for 18000 gold and you have yourself 8 shots, much better than the monk with a crossbow.

Then also they have a larger variety of weapons, high up on that list would be the spiked chain, as well as a variety of weapons with better criticals than the monk has.

Also the fighter has D10 HD to a monks D8, which when comparing tanks still has some value.

 

[Drowbane]

[MENTION=6692006]James the Newbie[/MENTION]: Your last line there caught my eye. I am hesitant to consider the Monk a "tank", at all. Aside from "concept class", I am at a loss as to what to label them under. "Striker", "Mage-Killer"? Perhaps. At the higher levels though, any Mage who dies to a Monk without extreme luck on the side of the Monk was not much of a Mage after all... And Monks simply don't hit hard enough for the "Striker" term.

 

[James the Newbie]

[MENTION=23396]Drowbane[/MENTION] They aren't tanks, that is for sure, but more health is always an obvious advantage, even if it is less important at high levels.