The monk. It will be mystical most likely

[Abstruse]

As part of that vaunted and hyped modularity the designers keep going on about, I want the monk to be totally optional. Even if it's not, it is the very first thing I ban outright from almost any game I run.

It just doesn't fit. It never has and it never will, IMO. Including it isn't worth the effort.

Save it for the inevitable "Oriental Adventures" expansion, please.

This is exactly why I want to see the monk divorced from the hodgepodge of Eastern culture we see in Oriental Adventures. Would you still object to a monk so ardently if it didn't have the Chinese/Japanese cultural trappings? If it was just an unarmed combatant who drew upon mystical reserves? If it was presented more like the the physical adept from Shadowrun as simply a set of mechanics you could plug together to get something that fit any culture or genre that had mystic warriors?

 

[Argyle King]

This is exactly why I want to see the monk divorced from the hodgepodge of Eastern culture we see in Oriental Adventures. Would you still object to a monk so ardently if it didn't have the Chinese/Japanese cultural trappings? If it was just an unarmed combatant who drew upon mystical reserves? If it was presented more like the the physical adept from Shadowrun as simply a set of mechanics you could plug together to get something that fit any culture or genre that had mystic warriors?

Maybe Monk could be a class and different cultures could be done via backgrounds; different schools being represented by themes?

 

[Minigiant]

Yes, the mystical monk need not be Oriental. You could easily make a nonspellcasting shaman or medicine man with the healer theme who beats the enemy of the tribe with his walking stick and supernatural attributes.

Or just a smaller cult or religious sect that focused their minds and bodies inward to make up for their lack of funds for weapons or armor.

Or a group of unfettered martial artists who turn to mysticism to guard or destroy their target.

Essentially the monk could be as diverse as the cleric.

 

[ArmoredSaint]

Would you still object to a monk so ardently if it didn't have the Chinese/Japanese cultural trappings? If it was just an unarmed combatant...

No, I wouldn't. But I think that would work better as a theme than as a class.

...who drew upon mystical reserves?...

Oh. Yes, I would object to that. I prefer that my unarmed combatants remain decidedly un-mystical.

I know I'm probably not going to get my way on this one. If there's a mystical east Asian-style monk in the PHB, it's not going to ruin the game for me; I'll ban it from my games just like I have always done. But I would still prefer to have it reserved for a later expansion.

 

[Steely_Dan]

Definitely want the Monk (one of my all time favourites) in the core/PHB (no waiting for 2 years); as for Monks all being Asian, no way, The Bloodguard (Bannor etc) from The Thomas Covenant series are just one example (sort of like monk/rangers) of non-Asian/Oriental monks.

And as for Psionics/the Psion, last I heard the Psion was crying in the corner, but psionics are definitely in 5th Ed, as evidenced by the Grey Ooze entry;and as power sources are not in 5th Ed, the Monk doesn't need to be associated with psionics (not that I have a problem with it).

I'm hoping it's more like the 1st Ed Monk.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I'm really not sure where I stand on the idea of highly trained martial artist vs. mystical ki wuxia warrior...but one thing I am sure of is that I want the monk class divorced from Eastern culture, especially in the "Mysterious Far East" sense.

Yeah. I'm really sick of 'Mysterious Far East' even being a thing any more. If you want to have your Chinaland and your Japanland, go ahead, but they shouldn't be any more 'exotic' or 'special' than the Frozen North and Hobbit Country and Mummyland that always show up. They shouldn't have a whole bunch of unique classes that are just variants of the 'normal' classes.

As part of that vaunted and hyped modularity the designers keep going on about, I want the monk to be totally optional. Even if it's not, it is the very first thing I ban outright from almost any game I run.

It just doesn't fit. It never has and it never will, IMO. Including it isn't worth the effort.

Save it for the inevitable "Oriental Adventures" expansion, please.

My first ever PC was a Monk. AD&D, 1st edition, first printing, right out of the Player's Handbook. It has been a part of D&D for almost as long as there has been D&D; it predates the original Oriental Adventures sourcebook by six years. Not only has it been a part of D&D for longer than I have been playing D&D, it has been a part of D&D since before I was born.

And like the other poster I quoted said... we are long past the point where we should keep having 'the inevitable Oriental Adventures expansion'. The first was twenty-six years ago. Final Fantasy was over twenty-five years ago. Hell, Final Fantasy VII was over fifteen years ago. Monks and Ninjas are as much a part of our fantasy and our mythology now as they are Japanese fantasy.

 

[Abstruse]

Oh. Yes, I would object to that. I prefer that my unarmed combatants remain decidedly un-mystical.

Why would mystical be a deal-breaker for you? Mystic unarmed or lightly-armed warriors have roots in pretty much every culture except European. Many Native American tribes, India, and many African cultures have them. The culture of Western Europe and America are pretty much the only ones that don't.

Unless you count divine warriors, but that's sort of the paladin's schtick. And probably northern Europe, but I've always been weak on the Viking/Saxon/etc. mythology and folklore, and those tend to head to barbarian territory...

 

[jadrax]

It has been a part of D&D for almost as long as there has been D&D; it predates the original Oriental Adventures sourcebook by six years. Not only has it been a part of D&D for longer than I have been playing D&D, it has been a part of D&D since before I was born.

Yeah, the first Monk Class is in Supplement II - published 1975.

 

[Gold Roger]

As I've said before, the monk is one of my favorites. I've gone to some length to integrate them with my campaign world. I thought I'd show some of the more prominent fighting styles I came up with to illustrate what I want from the class and how it can be worked into D&D without "far-east" babble. This won't convince anyone, but it amuses me and I hope it amuses and inspires others:

Redhand: This unnarmed fighting style origates from diabolists and others who make pacts with the devils of the nine hells. The full extent of this mystical style can only be learned directly from summon devils, who demand consquitevely greater sacrifices for their tutorship from the practitioners. Yet, many find the sacrifice to be worth it, for the greatest users find thes can wreath their hands in hellfire and shatter the soul as much as the body with their strikes and kicks.

Magog: An orc combat style that is said to be older than the first weapons. Magog is a brutish style that focuses on fiststrikes and wrestling and looks at a low level like mere brawling. However, by excessive training and focus on the most primal parts of their mind, the user can shatter stone and throw giants. Practitioners are very much sought as bodyguards for their terrible intimidation potential, quick reaction and lacking need for weapons.

Monitor: To learn these forbitten techniques the user must travel deep into the underdark and live among its inhuman residents. At the high cost of loosing their sanities, the users bend the laws of reality at their touch, becomming a force to be recogned with. That is, if they can still remember their original purpose

Fatecutter: Used by secular phillosophers and cults concerned with fate, luck and doom, this style is only taught to carefully selected individuals, for it is said it's practitioners can reweave the strands of fate itself. It takes a lifelong dedication to mystic phillosophie and meditation, but a master kills his opponents by merely tipping them.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Why would mystical be a deal-breaker for you? Mystic unarmed or lightly-armed warriors have roots in pretty much every culture except European. Many Native American tribes, India, and many African cultures have them. The culture of Western Europe and America are pretty much the only ones that don't.

Unless you count divine warriors, but that's sort of the paladin's schtick. And probably northern Europe, but I've always been weak on the Viking/Saxon/etc. mythology and folklore, and those tend to head to barbarian territory...

It is like you say. We have our mystical warrior traditions, too-- ours just tended to be armed, because our cultures were generally more accepting of arms. We never developed the same level of sophistication in our unarmed techniques because it was generally assumed that people would have weapons. Our mystical warrior traditions are, as you say, called "barbarians" in D&D.

On the other hand, you did start to see some similar trends of spiritual athleticism developing in the West in the 19th century, which included some interest in forms of sporting combat-- bare-knuckle boxing and wrestling.