The Monk's Hit Dice Should Be a d8! [Rant]

Sadly, even with the "by the book" d8 HD for monks, the monk in my game (high level) has been anything but overpowered. Attacks at +20/+17/+14/+11, damage at 1d12 +5. It's less than inspiring. And then there are his special abilities, the Unstunning Blow, and the Flurry of Misses.

Ask your DM to test the monk against other classes in actual combat.

Or, don't play one. Monks suck. Be a psychic warrior with unarmed feats and powers instead.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

creamsteak said:
So why then would a DM I know force Monks to play with a d6 hit die, claiming that Monk's get more class abilities and are broken?

Because I guarantee he's never used it in play or seen it used in play. Tell him to actually see it in play first before making a knee-jerk reaction. Either that or find another DM.
 

nameless said:
1. Monks suck, and there is really no good reason to play one, ever.

-nameless

I'm afraid, sir, you are smoking weed. On the battlefield, a monk's high movement rate, superb saving throws, and spell resistance make him an excellent spellcaster-killer. And they are decent second-line tanks. Plus it's fun to say "Haii-yah!!" :D
 

We have a monk player IMC and his performances for the group are quite stunning (no pun intended). A cleverly played monk with lots of rank in Balance, Tumble and Jump is a terror on the battlefield simply because of their superior movement. I think the monk class is just right as it is....
 

There's nothing wrong with monks!!

I've been playing one for over a year and she's great. Admitedly they're not too hot on lower levels, but once they start getting the better feats and increased movement speed they're fantastic to play. Loads of fun, and especially useful when everyone is asleep with no armour or weapons and the group gets ambushed. :D No strapping on plate mail for me! :p
 

Since I made a sweeping comment on monk's suckiness, I'll explain it. The most commonly cited reasons to play a monk are mobility and defense against magic.

1. Mobility is just plain bunk once the Fly spell comes into the campaign. Fly is just as quick as all but the highest level of Monk, and the Monk stands no chance against a flying opponent with ranged attacks. It's not hard to get a hold of a magic item which grants flight as well.

2. They do in fact have good defense against magic... but defense doesn't win the game by itself and the combat system favors the attacker over the defender. A monk has good SR, once he gets it, but with the availability of spell penetration and various other tricks, a spellcaster will eventually harass the monk to death.

3. I say that the monk's strengths can be duplicated by magic items, but the monk can't do the opposite? True. A monk can't use magic weapons, magic armor, can't add SR, and a few other things. Their natural abilities already have all of that. If you really want to use all of that junk anyways, you're playing a neutered fighter. So why not play a fighter/barb/ranger and take advantage of better HD, BAB, and weapon selection.

4. Monks are severely hampered by multiple attribute dependency. They are melee fighters, so they need strength. Their AC is based solely on their Dex and Wis, so these should be high; a few of the monk's specials also rely on Wis. They have low HP, so they need a decent Con to be on the front line. They also want that Con for a good Fort save. Cha and Int can be dumps, but Monks have good skills, so Int is useful. This means the the character that you need to sacrifice some of the strengths because they rely on different things.

5. I almost forgot this. Paladins whose primary or secondary stat is Charisma have better saves than monks. They also get the good weapons and armor that monks can't use, in addition to some cool divine abilities and spells.

6. Monastic life is by definition, secluded. When creating a character concept, most Monks need extenuating circumstances to go adventuring. It's difficult to integrate a Monk into the group in-character

There are a few good points: Monks have a very high touch AC; hard to hit them with incorporeal attacks and with rays. The incorporeal thing is a two-way street though, since they also can't hit incorporeal easily. Flurry of Blows (statistically superior in 99% of situations to normal attack) gives you the full strength mod to your vitrual off hand.

I think that sums up my objections to the monk.

-nameless
 

After all the analysis, the reason someone plays a monk is because they have a blast playing a monk. They may not have the best numbers in everything, but they are loads of fun. I have a player in the game I run who has a 7th level monk, and he says it is the most fun character he has played in a long time. That says it all, at least for me.
 

Dr. Zoom said:
After all the analysis, the reason someone plays a monk is because they have a blast playing a monk. They may not have the best numbers in everything, but they are loads of fun. I have a player in the game I run who has a 7th level monk, and he says it is the most fun character he has played in a long time. That says it all, at least for me.

Heck yeah!

When I rolled up a replacement for my dead PC in a party full of mostly tanks and a couple of spell chuckas, I went the weirdest route I could think of.

What if Jackie Chan was in D&D?
*cue Kung Fu-ish music*
Enter the Halfling!

Brother Peldin Thistlefoot of the Black Lotus Order was technically my first 3rd Edition character and he was merely a halfling monk. Sure he wasn't a combat wombat like the rest of the party but he wasn't meant to be.

I had more fun pulling off stunts that would make Jackie Chan proud. At first the rest of the party thought 'WTF?!' but after seeing him in action, they changed their minds quick.

Every monk was Kung Fu fighting.... the halfling was fast as lightning... In fact it was a lil bit frightening....


Klaatu
 

nameless said:
6. Monastic life is by definition, secluded. When creating a character concept, most Monks need extenuating circumstances to go adventuring. It's difficult to integrate a Monk into the group in-character

-nameless

Hmm.. can't agree with that. Whilst this would be true of some monks it is very easy to come up with a reason for them to be adventuring - in order to better themselves. Monks don't all have to be vow of silence in abject poverty types. Use your imagination! They are supposed to undertake spiritual journey's for gods sake. There's nothing saying they have to do it from their bedrooms.

At the end of the day you choose a character that will be fun to play. As Dr. Zoom says - Monks are fun! How else do you get to impress the group with kung foo style antics :D
 

Your DM is a yahoo, Creamie. :)

Monks are sweet because they're rather untouchable. They've got staying power. And they don't need magical trinkets to do it.

A paladin only has better saves at low levels with a good Cha. Monks can still oust them at higher levels, especially with a few stat-boosting items of their own.

They get lots of attacks...lots and lots...and they're virtually immune to sundering.

A flying wizard is no big deal, because by the time you're facing one of those, you should be able to fly, too.

Basically, Monks are rather unstoppable. That alone makes them a threat. They can't really dish out a whole lot, but they can take it, no problem.

Honestly, the stats are fairly prioritized:

Wisdom
Dexterity
Str/Con
Anything Else

Certainly, a class like the Psion or Psychic Warrior is even more dependant on having all ability scores being decent.
 

Remove ads

Top