The more I read about D&D 3.5. the more...

[Kerrick]

Big whoop. This slavish devotion to "absolute perfection" with NPC stat blocks is sickening.

Gee, I never really thought of it as "slavish devotion to absolute perfection." I considered it DOING IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. Contrary to what you seem to believe, people will probably not buy your products if they're full of little inconsistencies - it makes the buyer suspicious of your mastery and knowledge of the rules. One buyer notes this and mentions to his friend that "man, these guys apparently didn't read their PHB." And it all goes downhill from there.
I take pride in my work. I may be a little anal about it, but I try to make sure that anything I do is the best it can be, barring honest mistakes. If I got something wrong that I could have spent thirty seconds looking up, that falls on MY head, and it makes me look like an idiot. My father taught me to do things right the first time, and four years in the Army just reinforced it.

And while we're on the subject of statblocks, how will these changes affect the standard stablock? Will we all have to, indeed, revise our old statblocks?

 

[buzz]

Two sticky threads

Morrus needs to create two sticky threads:

3.5e complainers

and

3.5e reasoned discussion

And then force everyone discussing 3.5e to remain in those threads.

I swear, folks. You were probably going to buy products from WotC in July anyway...

 

[Nail]

Fiddle dee dee. Those NPCs and creatures can still be used as is - just because 2 rangers or pit fiends or whatever don't have identical abilities doesn't mean that one of them is unusable.

As you can see, this is a touchy topic.....for both sides of th' aisle.

Of course you can use the old stuff. Heck, you could still be playing 1e if you wanted to....or even neglect th' dice and just play "pretend".

That's not th' point.

The point is that this conversion is not as "backward compatable" as some have led us to believe. The Pit Fiend is a wonderful example: any old adventures with Pit Fiends in them will have to be changed significantly. The two creatures only share their name....other than that........

It's kinda funny: many of you have hauled out th' old "No one is forcing you" routine. Nice act, guys.....and you're right, no one's going to be knocking down my door with baseball bats if I don't convert to 3.5e.

The same thing could be said of 1e.

How many of you are playing 1e, again?............. lessee a show of hands.......

*****************************

But just so there's "truth in advertising", here.....

Yup, I'll spend th' dough and buy the new books.

Ain't hypocrisy wonderful? Lighten up, folks.

 

[Someone]

All I can say is I´ll download the SRD, check what´s new and keep what´s good. Good for me, anyways.

 

[Tsyr]

The point is that this conversion is not as "backward compatable" as some have led us to believe. The Pit Fiend is a wonderful example: any old adventures with Pit Fiends in them will have to be changed significantly.

Why? You can just use the existing one if you want, you know.

It's kinda funny: many of you have hauled out th' old "No one is forcing you" routine. Nice act, guys.....and you're right, no one's going to be knocking down my door with baseball bats if I don't convert to 3.5e.

The same thing could be said of 1e.

How many of you are playing 1e, again?............. lessee a show of hands.......

*raises hand*

Actualy, I play basic DnD (Out of the Rules Cyclopedia) one night a week, and I'm huge, huge Hackmaster fan, which is basicly a revised 1E/2E. I use Hackmaster to run Greyhawk.

 

[Pielorinho]

It's kinda funny: many of you have hauled out th' old "No one is forcing you" routine. Nice act, guys.....and you're right, no one's going to be knocking down my door with baseball bats if I don't convert to 3.5e.

The same thing could be said of 1e.

How many of you are playing 1e, again?............. lessee a show of hands.......

You're right, more people play 3E than 1E, and do you know why?

1) Because 3E is still being published;
2) Because 3E provides more options to characters (even if you don't know how to use a weapon, you're still allowed to carry it around and try to use it -- this was forbidden in 2E and I think 1E)
3) Because 3E uses a more consistent system (you don't have to look up your weapon and compare it to the type of armor your opponent is wearing to determine what bonus or penalty your weapon experiences against specific types of armor).

Nobody is forcing me to play 3E. If I liked 1E better, I'd play it.

And if I like 3E better than 3.5E, I'll play 3E.

THAT'S THE POINT.

Don't freak out about the changes. If you don't like them, bully for you! Keep your old books, spend that $90 on a nice dinner and romantic evening with your sweetheart.

And if you do like the new changes? Decide whether you like them $90 worth. If so, buy the new books. If not, it's a romantic evening for you and your sweetie!

Or, Nail, you could buy a vow'l. Th' "e" s''ms to b' missing on your k'yboard, and it costs consid'rably l'ss than $90.

Daniel

 

[Celtavian]

Re

I don't even know whether I like or dislike the changes.

The main problem for me is that I am no longer looking forward to books such as Races of Faerun and The Unapproachable East. I don't feel like picking up books that may or may not need revision or serious errata.

These changes being alluded to are pretty much going to freeze me from buying new products until I receive more information.

At the moment, I have just enough information to see that major changes are occurring. Though the core system will remain the same, it is still going to greatly modify things such as prestige classes and at least 4 of the core classes.

From the sound of it, this is just the beginning of the confirmed changes. They seem to be changing many spells and quite a few spell list.

I am quite sure that I and gaming group will need to modify several of their PC's. This alone is cause for concern considering we are running a long-term campaign.

Just kind of ruins my D20 interest in new products until July. After that, I will see how these changes are going to affect the game. then proceed accordingly.

 

[Utrecht]

I think that people are missing the complainers point. Very few have stated that they won't switch. What they are asking for is a unbiased, realistic description of the scope of the changes.

Going from 2e to 3e - every one safely made the assumption that 2e was going by the wayside.

With 3e to 3.X it is a little more difficult. Originally, WotC said that they were going to tighten rules and clear things up. That set an expectation in the public's mind. then suddenly they see the Pit Fiend whose changes are anything but "tightening" - Thus, people began to ask (rightly) what is the true scope of the changes?

Right now we are operating under FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) due to the lack of information - while WotC is certainly under no obligation to describe where they are going - especially given the desire to market these books. But they need to understand that there are a great number of people who are truly curious and concerned where the new version is going since they - WotC- have (up till now) said one thing and done quite another.

Edit for clarity

 

[Pielorinho]

I think that people are missing the complainers point. Very few have stated that they won't switch. What they are asking for is a unbiased, realistic description of the scope of the changes.

Who's going to give an unbiased description of the changes -- the folks making the changes? the PR flaks for the company making the changes?

That's not a reasonable or realistic expectation to have. Of course the folks making the changes are going to think they're good changes; and of course the company selling the product is going to want you to think they're good changes. Any account of the changes is going to be biased.

Furthermore, I get the impression that the changes aren't set in stone yet. If they're not made, the folks in the know can't tell us what they'll be.

And even if they could, they've got no interest in blowing their wad within a couple weeks of the announcement. They'll want to keep the buzz about the new edition going right up until the new books are released in July. Expect a steady trickle of information to come out week by week, not a comprehensive set of information now and nothing new until July.

I can understand people being uncertain about whether they'll get the new edition. I can understand people doubting that they'll get it. But living under Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt? Sheesh! The drama club called, wants their tiara back.

Daniel

 

[Aaron2]

Originally, WotC said that they were going to tighten rules and clear things up. That set an expectation in the public's mind. then suddenly they see the Pit Fiend whose changes are anything but "tightening" - Thus, people began to ask (rightly) what is the true scope of the changes?

Its only a monster. Changing a monster's stats won't cause all your class-books to suddenly become useless. How many adventures are Pit Fiends in anyway? I don't know of any.

Right now we are operating under FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) due to the lack of information - while WotC is certainly under no obligation to describe where they are going - especially given the desire to market these books. But they need to understand that there are a great number of people who are truly curious and concerned where the new version is going since they - WotC- have (up till now) said one thing and done quite another.

WotC is slowly dispersing info in Dragon. That was their plan all along. Just because somebody is freaking out doesn't mean they shouldn't stick to their plan. Does it?


Aaron