The most powerful rogue powers from Martial Power.
I think Rogue options are going to continue to feel a little lackluster unless they open things up for the Rogue quite a bit more.
Of all the D&D classes, rogues were defined most by things they could do out of combat. In 4e, your class directly relates to what you can do in combat. Any character can be a thief... especially Eladrin or Humans... with a few feats and racial features, owing to a simplified skill system.
Mobility is also open to everyone now through teleports, shifts, gaining concealment through movement or powers, and so forth. Things like tumbling past enemies used to be a very big deal. Now virtually everyone gets some way to safely move through combat. Likewise, evasion was a rogue's big deal in combat previously, but in 4e there are evasion-like options for a lot of character classes and builds now, too: powers that allow instant interrupts and reactions or saves or that end effects.
What makes a Rogue a Rogue in 4e now is this: sneak attack and limited weapons choices. I think they need a bit more to be a justifiable combat class that is just as interesting as the rest.
The weapons list is the least "sexy" or exciting: primarily daggers, slings, shuriken, and crossbows. They should have added some interesting or exotic options like whips or opened up more blade options to all races of Rogue for a reduction in sneak attack damage. That the powers are so heavily limited by weapon also costs the class quite a bit in terms of concepts.
The class needed some "oomph" or excitement that it just didn't get with Martial Power. Rogue = Sneak Attack much moreso than any defender class = marking or any leader class = healing. Rogues are 4e's clerics in that as a combat class they're primarily built for one thing. Instead of heal monkeys you've got sneak attack monkeys. You can do almost everything else you would have done with a Rogue with any other class and fewer restrictions.
Until they fix that, I'll probably be less than inspired to make my roguish characters out of the actual Rogue class.
Of all the D&D classes, rogues were defined most by things they could do out of combat. In 4e, your class directly relates to what you can do in combat. Any character can be a thief... especially Eladrin or Humans... with a few feats and racial features, owing to a simplified skill system.
Mobility is also open to everyone now through teleports, shifts, gaining concealment through movement or powers, and so forth. Things like tumbling past enemies used to be a very big deal. Now virtually everyone gets some way to safely move through combat. Likewise, evasion was a rogue's big deal in combat previously, but in 4e there are evasion-like options for a lot of character classes and builds now, too: powers that allow instant interrupts and reactions or saves or that end effects.
What makes a Rogue a Rogue in 4e now is this: sneak attack and limited weapons choices. I think they need a bit more to be a justifiable combat class that is just as interesting as the rest.
The weapons list is the least "sexy" or exciting: primarily daggers, slings, shuriken, and crossbows. They should have added some interesting or exotic options like whips or opened up more blade options to all races of Rogue for a reduction in sneak attack damage. That the powers are so heavily limited by weapon also costs the class quite a bit in terms of concepts.
The class needed some "oomph" or excitement that it just didn't get with Martial Power. Rogue = Sneak Attack much moreso than any defender class = marking or any leader class = healing. Rogues are 4e's clerics in that as a combat class they're primarily built for one thing. Instead of heal monkeys you've got sneak attack monkeys. You can do almost everything else you would have done with a Rogue with any other class and fewer restrictions.
Until they fix that, I'll probably be less than inspired to make my roguish characters out of the actual Rogue class.
Doctor Proctor
First Post
There's a lot of stuff actually. I don't know about the powers necessarily, but there's a lot of excellent Paragon Paths.
Death Dealer, for example, is brutal. Adjacent enemies get a -2 to saving throws, which is great for all those (save ends) conditions. You get one that when you spend an action point you get a +2 to each damage die until the start of your next turn. Very nice for firing off multiple [W] encounter and daily powers. You also get an At-Will that when you reduce an enemy to 0hp each enemy that can see gets a -2 penalty to attack rolls until the start of your next turn.
There's also a great Daily called Uncanny Ricochet. You must be wielding a light thrown weapon, crossbow or sling. You do a DEX vs REF attack against one target for 4[W] damage. If you miss, you make a secondary attack with combat advantage on one creature with 3 squares of the primary, also for 4[W] damage. With the CA on the miss, you can still do sneak attack damage on the secondary target. Very nice power.
Death Dealer, for example, is brutal. Adjacent enemies get a -2 to saving throws, which is great for all those (save ends) conditions. You get one that when you spend an action point you get a +2 to each damage die until the start of your next turn. Very nice for firing off multiple [W] encounter and daily powers. You also get an At-Will that when you reduce an enemy to 0hp each enemy that can see gets a -2 penalty to attack rolls until the start of your next turn.
There's also a great Daily called Uncanny Ricochet. You must be wielding a light thrown weapon, crossbow or sling. You do a DEX vs REF attack against one target for 4[W] damage. If you miss, you make a secondary attack with combat advantage on one creature with 3 squares of the primary, also for 4[W] damage. With the CA on the miss, you can still do sneak attack damage on the secondary target. Very nice power.
Rogues dish damage, not much else really, if it's not your thing they won't be what you want to play, but they are definately the king of single target asskicking. Last night's game my level 4 rogue did 55 damage to a goblin and killed it before it got to act and warn the next room we were coming, all I used was my standard action and a free crossbow shot because I crit. At wills regularly hit for 20-25 damage a round when I am able to sneak attack (which is more often than not by a long shot) and still hit for 11-14 if I don't get a sneak attack. My fighter has a lower chance to hit and only does like 7-14 with his at wills, damage isn't his thing but it's clear just how much more a rogue can do.
People "say" that other classes can be rogues, but it still takes some work to get there. They would have to take feats to get training in skills the rogue already has. Meanwhile the rogue can take skill focus feats to be even better.
They also have a number of utility powers that are based on skills.
I continue to cry at the forced weapon restrictions of the rogue, but there's still a lot more to class then SA SA SA! (at least out of combat, in combat I think its all SA SA SA!!)
They also have a number of utility powers that are based on skills.
I continue to cry at the forced weapon restrictions of the rogue, but there's still a lot more to class then SA SA SA! (at least out of combat, in combat I think its all SA SA SA!!)
Shroomy
Adventurer
I never had a problem with the core rogue weapon restrictions (and I do like how they make weapons like the dagger and shuriken much more effective), but I do like that WoTC has opened the weapon selection up via the Ruthless Ruffian class feature and the feats in Martial Power.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
No. It's crap. The only thing it has going for it is heavy blade opportunity. Apart from that, congratulations! You just got rapier proficiency at the cost of a sneak attack die! (and lets not forget that you could have gotten double sword proficiency, that most broken of all proficiencies).
The rogue weapon restrictions really fall down when you realise that they require you be wielding a dagger in order to garrote someone.
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