The Most useful of All Sourcebooks is Here (TLG PR)

[Troll Lord]

LOL

Does any book ever get much acclaim on RGP.net. I remember when the CC came out. One guy over there, hammered it and hammered it and hammered it again. Davis, taking things in stride as he always does, contacted the fellow and struck up an interesting conversation with the fellow. The guy was real nice, polite, and a little more gentle in his crits of the book but come to find out, he didn't play 3e, hated the game, restricting himself to some other very small late 80s game (can't remember which).

But suffice it to say. It is not just a book of lists. There are lists in the book without a doubt. Some of these are straigt up lists of things, others random generators, some definitions, some charts and so forth and so on. I'm not going to plug what the book isn't. You can't sit down and "read" the World Builder (unless you can read definitions, which some of you can, myself, I prefer more text ). It is much like the dictionary, you track down the info you need or want and use it.

This book is a tool for gamers or writers. I hope you'll look it over, and if you purchase it, use it for what its meant to be. A tool.

(lol bloody rpg.net, they never give the old trolls a break! ).

Steve

 

[CCamfield]

Re: LOL

Does any book ever get much acclaim on RGP.net.

Yes, actually. Off the top of my head (and doing a bit of searching) -

Mutants and Masterminds has an average review score of 9.5/10 (based on four reviews), 3rd ed Ravenloft got a bunch of 8s, and while the response comments were negative, the actually submitted review of Canting Crew gave it a 9/10.

Departing from d20, Adventure and Nobilis have received tremendous acclaim.

 

[Troll Lord]

yeppers

I was just being a little sarcastic. The Codex of Erde, Malady of Kings and A Lion in the Ropes all scored very high marks over there as well, at least on the reviews.

Now sarcasm aside. The interesting thing we've run into in working with Gygax is the amount of hatred his name garners. We have had people come up to our booth at Origins and Gencon and curse the fellow. And he really is a delightful fellow, who is very patient and has very good, and clear insights into gaming. He and I don't always agree, but that doesn't detract from his creative abilities.

I have little doubt that some will find the world builder a less than useful tool, others will find it very useful. Its all subjective of course.

Steve

 

[Inzae]

Spank

Why do I get the urge to smack Davis around 30 times?


mmmm.. I'm getting goose bumpb already

Davis

 

[Inzae]

oh yeah

So i posted a responce to some of the criticisms over at rpgnet post 69 (seeeeet) if you will. I guess I can repost it here so ...

----------------------------------------------
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnng

Nothing like a gary book to get things hoppin. I odn't even know where to begin. I feel like some white house office staffer developing a spin to control a presidential gaff. Iimagine the front man for Monika Lewinsky (or women, though I have a sneaking suspicion it was a man).

Ok first of all, what the book is NOT: It is not a how-to manual. We never, to my knowledge, advertised it as a how-to manual for people needing help designing their own Campaign Setting. I address this issue in our upcoming Seeker webzine should anyone care to peruse it. Perhaps many people decided it was a how-to manual prior to opening it. A glance at any of the previes and commentary on the matter should have laid that puppy to rest. But, perhaps we were not clear enough (something I wouldn't put past us)!!! As for a guide to building campaign settings, we are prepping a talk to Gary about writing out his advice on creating how-to manual. But the world builder is not it.

What the world builder IS: Yes it has a lot of lists in it. Why might you ask does it have a lot of lists. Well, so you can fill your world with things. INstead of "You are walking through a forest," you can now describe your forest in alittle greater detail. The same goes for rooms (adding toys to office accouterments), there are lsits of crimes (now more than just pickpocketing is illegal), weapons, herbs (design your own affects - this gives you the template) etc.

Why lists of stuff. Because many people do not have any stuff in their campaigns. I can not tell you how many games I have set in on at Gen Con and elsewhere (with experienced DMs) who could not name anything but 2-3 types of things you would find in an office, or living room etc. What the lists do is give you material to work with, details to flesh out your campaign.

Is it more than just lists? YES, most assuredly, there are a plethora of definitions. Does anyone know what a Rill is? the difference between a bog, fen and marsh, a capuche, a baretta,?

Many many things are in here that can be used to give that added oomph to the Campaign.

There are also material strength and hardnesses so yo can more accurately portray the affects and strengths of differing woods, stones, gems and other material (tensile strength of ropes). 60 different traps.

Then there are lists of goods. Things one might find in a store - or better yet, things one might find on a caravan that is being raided by the players. Not just gold, but wheat, spices, furniture.

50+ different occupations for craftsmen...

and on.

Its flesh to add to a world. It does not pretend to tell you how to build a world (can you imagine the anger that would produce), how to play in that world, or how, basically, to play your game.

There is much talk of Gary being out of it and not in connection with the modern player. I know Gary and have for some three years now. This is quite simply the nicest person you are going to run into. Sure he has his beef with this that or the other (who doesn't, there is no game, no book, no DM, no author no material, that is universally liked - so I do not expect Gary to be). But his gaming philosophy is very very simple. You build it, you DM it, you have fun doing it.

What he tries to do (the whole reason he got into this business) is to give you a template to work with (dand D 1e), information to use or discard at your leasure and pleasure (mods and theis here World Builder). Its that simple.

So I do not know what I left out. I hope this does not sound to condescening or what not, it is not meant to be (what with my spelling and grammar on the fly how could it be). I am just rying to get it out quickly and concisely ????

If you have any concerns or questions, feel free to email me (davis@trolllord.com), or drop by our message boards and start posting under Gygaxian Fantasy. FGary would be happy to address questions there also. ( I think, he is fairly busy at the moment I believe but I will ask him anyway)

Now then, that said I want to revisit soiled waters - the Canting Crew - maybe later.

Ohh and it is the second book in a six part series. Much else is supplied. One really could not describe how to build a world in one book could they - I mean, really.

Cordially and really wanting to write more articles for the Seeker...
Davis
------------------------------------------

boy, I copuld use an editor.

davis

 

[Labmonkey-XL]

There is quite alot of bashing of gygax on rpg.net, and I usually try to stay away from the flames, but i do agree that of late, some of gygax's material is less than what it was in his prime.

Other than that I really have nothing against him like most people say they do, I'm looking forward to reading the World Builder book and hope that it is useful for doing what I want to do.

 

[Troll Lord]

We've noticed...

We have noticed that some folks just really don't like Mr. Gygax. Of course, I judge a man by what he eats and Gary took us out to a Serbian restaurant up yonder way at GenCon. Good heavens and earth below, I had some goloush (how do you spell that?) that was amazing. We trolls, gary and family ate and drank all night, quite fun, quite fun!

And really that thread has devolved down to the title shouldn't have been World Builder and the price point.

Regardless, thanks for the kind words, ahh, Labmonkey Give the World Builder a look see if you get the chance, I think you'll like it.

Steve

 

[jgbrowning]

Re: We've noticed...

And really that thread has devolved down to the title shouldn't have been World Builder and the price point.

I was going to post something to this effect over there but realized the general futility of such an action..

I'll pick the book up, look at whats inside, and buy it if I find it useful. You could have called it "Gary's book about stuff you may or may not find useful depending on wether or not you are looking for information about any of the things contained on any of the pages between the covers that we had estimated to be 185+ pages but turned out to be just a bit under that, but is still quite packed with things that you may or may not find useful depending on your circumstances," and i'd do the same thing.

Actually, if i saw that title i'd get the book on principle.

joe b.

 

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

"Devolved" to talking about price? As one of the primary people saying "yeah, it actually looks like it's useful but the cost is too steep at $30 USD for 176 pages", I find that remark a tad discrediting to some valid points. A book may be useful, it may be well-written, but if it costs too much then it can loose as many points on that alone as its content grants it.

Comments that the title "World Builder" is misleading are also valid. Someone just hearing the title automatically thinks that it is for setting/world development (as so many people did when the product was first announced and continue to do so by reading the release blurb on Troll Lord's site, thus much of the confusion over it "just being lists.") This shouldn't be a problem for anyone purchasing it at a gaming store as they can flip through it and see if it contains what they are looking for, but say someone were to order it online and find that what they end up buying isn't what they thought at all. You've got to keep in mind that most online stores merely copy and paste the publisher's release blurb to keep things easy on themselves and so that they can't be held accountable for any misunderstanding.

Granted, I don't think anything underhanded was intended at all, I think it was just something that slipped under everyone's radar until the product was released and consumer feedback actually started to be heard on the matter. Still, it remains a valid point and one that would be sorely underestimated if relegated to the status of a "devolved" subject and of no relevance or importance.

 

[Troll Lord]

JP.......that was perhaps the funniest post I've read in god knows how long. I fell out of my chair. Hmm, maybe we should bring you on as a title consultant!

As for the price point and the title, I certainly don't want to get into the same discussion here. Innumerable small publishers with vastly more knowledge and experience than myself have explained the pricing over various books. I'll say simply that we are not WoTC, nor Necromancer and price our books accordingly. Trust me when I tell you we are taking a bit of a hit on these. pricing for a small company is very different from larger companies. I wish it weren't because then we could actually make a LOT of money of products, but so goes life.

As for the title, the book is a World Building book. It is chalk full of information you will find useful in building your world. Perhaps we could have titled it better. Dozens were discussed and mulled over, from "Everyday Facts and Everyday Places" to "Discriptionary" to this that and the other. At some point the discussion had to end and the book had to titled. I voted for World Builder as it was short, to the point and self explanatory.

I know that some online retailers only use my ad blurb, but that is why it says:

"Unburdened with flavor text this tome is a collection of militantly organized
definitions, lists, tables and charts with an army of information from the mundane to the
extraordinary. Game designers, professional or amateur, find an arsenal of trees, herbs, armor,
weapons, terrain features, and much more, as well as new weapons, armor, magical gems, spell
components and herbs for the d20 system. The World Builder covers outdoor settings, indoor
living settings, merchandise with a completely illustrated armor and weapons section and
everyday facts from the government structure to the tensile strength of rope."

Hopefully, this will do the job. Really, we can't do any more. The book is off the press and on to the retailers. If the price is too high, then its just too high. I hope you will take a moment and look the book over and judge for yourself.

I stand by the product. It is a damn good book and well worth the money you will spend on it.

And if you really didn't like the title of the book wait till you get the load of the next one "Living Fantasy" and then "Deep Quiet" Bwahahahahaah.... Just kidding!

Steve