The Myth of the Necessity of Magic Items

[JohnSnow]

However I'm concerned about losing out on the "finding cool stuff" fun.

This is slightly off-topic, given that it's about Iron Heroes, but I thought I'd tell you what I've been planning to do about that. I like the notion of cool magic stuff, but not the goofy stat boosting items.

So I'm planning on having weapons that are magic, or holy, or profane for DR purposes, but provide no statistical bonus, thematic items, items (weapons and armor, especially) made of unusual materials, Weapons of Legacy (or something like them), and the like. Basically, there'll be plenty of cool items (maybe even some that provide special abilities, like flight, at appropriate levels), but no boring "stat boost" ones. I might even allow for a few weapon special abilities (like keen) or a minimal amount of extra damage from thinks like flaming, but I hadn't decided. Other items might exist on a case-by-case basis.

Thematic items don't undo the balance in IH any more than eliminating them undoes the balance in D&D. Unless you run with the theory that magic weapons pierce armor DR. That makes magic weapons pretty powerful.

 

[Pbartender]

Thematic items don't undo the balance in IH any more than eliminating them undoes the balance in D&D. Unless you run with the theory that magic weapons pierce armor DR. That makes magic weapons pretty powerful.

In IH, as written, they do... Armor DR is "#d#/magic". Simply calling a weapon "magical" without even giving a bonus to attack or damage is meaningful, since it allows you to slice straight through mundane armor.

Incidentally, I like your ideas for magical weapons and items... I might have to swipe that for my own IH game.

...people are essentially telling lower-magic gamers that they're not allowed to play a low magic game using the D&D rules because they seem to believe that you must be maxed out with MI's to play D&D "correctly" or "their way".

No, not exactly... People are essentially telling lower-magic gamers that they're if they want to play a low magic game using the D&D rules, you will need to make some modest changes to the rules, because the standard D&D rules assume that characters have a certain amount of magic items in order to be able fight effectively against encounters of an appropriate challenge rating.

If you reduce or take away those magic items, you will either need to increase the power of the characters, decrease the power of the monsters, or use monsters of a lower challenge rating than normally suggested. And since some classes rely more heavily on equipment (especially magical equipment), those classes will be affected by the chance more heavily than the others.

 

[Quasqueton]

Tordek with magic items*
Fighter 18
Str: 25
Dex: 17
Con: 24
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 6

AC: 41

HP: 229

Attack: warhammer +31/+26/+21/+16

Damage: warhammer 1d8+12

Saves
Fort: +22
Ref: +13
Will: +12

Abilities
flying (boots)

***************

Tordek without magic items
Fighter 18
Str: 19
Dex: 13
Con: 16
Int: 10
Wis: 14**
Cha: 6

AC: 21

HP: 157

Attack: waraxe +23/+18/+13/+8

Damage: waraxe 1d8+4

Saves
Fort: +13
Ref: +7
Will: +8**

Abilities
no flying


* From Bastion of Broken Souls

** List says "periapt of Wisdom", but no bonus number

Isn't there a listing of the iconics by every level in some book? Would be interesting to see Tordek and/or other iconics listed with and without their magic gear.


Quasqueton

 

[painandgreed]

This thread has been interesting because people are essentially telling lower-magic gamers that they're not allowed to play a low magic game using the D&D rules because they seem to believe that you must be maxed out with MI's to play D&D "correctly" or "their way".

I don't think anybody has said that. I think they have said that it is expected and that if you want to run a low magic game you'll have to rethink CRs, DRs, and maybe even higher level DCs. You can either provide lower CR challenges to match actual character ability or provide other bonus' to bring them up to expected and you'll solve most problems.

 

[jmucchiello]

Tordek with magic items*
AC: 41

Tordek without magic items
AC: 21

That is huge. It's a whole d20.

 

[molonel]

This thread has been interesting because people are essentially telling lower-magic gamers that they're not allowed to play a low magic game using the D&D rules because they seem to believe that you must be maxed out with MI's to play D&D "correctly" or "their way".

Since I'm running two low magic games and playing in another, I think you are mistaken about this summary of the discussion so far.

I think people are simply saying that you're making it sound like it's easy, with few house rules required, when in fact the game needs to be tailored on several aspects at mid- and upper levels

 

[Malhost Zormaeril]

But how often can you send the entire party off after a +2 weapon of blah, just because there isn't one available on the open market? Doesn't the game then devolve into some kind of Diablo II hunt for better equipment purely for the sake of the better equipment, rather than the story itself?

Well, what if the +2 weapon of blah is held by the next target of the BBEG? Or he may have sworn vengeance against one of the characters' teacher, and wants to kill him on sight rather than trade? There's nothing that says the side-quest for the next magic item in the chain has to be completely orthogonal to the main quest. In fact, it's best if it does tie in.

In the end, you're feeding him plot hooks to advance your quest, and he'll be blowing extra money on Sages or whatever to scout out the location of the magic items he needs. It's a thing of beauty, really.

 

[green slime]

People saying balance is an illusion?

Check.

People saying magic items are only for powergamers and min/maxers?

Check.

People saying that there doesn't have to be a mechanical reason to choose a class?

Check.

People ignoring that other people like to play the game differently?

Double-check.

Yep, normal low-magic soapbox thread. Badwrong fun and everything.

Boy, where have you been in the past three decades?

Just because something is dead, doesn't mean its gone. I suggest a barghest for your horse.

 

[hong]

Balance is an illusion, my bank balance doubly so.




No, wait, that's not right.

 

[green slime]

Balance is an illusion, my bank balance doubly so.




No, wait, that's not right.

Given the property market in Oz, I'd say it wasn't just your bank balance that is an illusion...