The Nature of Change (or, Understanding Edition Wars)

[Wulf Ratbane]

Like it or not, WotC's situation with 4e is most analogous to Windows Vista (only more difficult, because at least Windows XP isn't open source).

And the OPs experience, to the extent that it is analogous and useful, is in forcing people to upgrade their software-- such as from XP to Vista. As a requirement for their job.

But for many of Microsoft's customers, and certainly all of WotC's customers, upgrading from 3e to 4e is optional. It's not about getting them to accept a change. First you have to get them to want to change. There is no external impetus forcing the change.

I'm waiting for D&D Mojave.

 

[Imaro]

Yes, the fact that we are having edition wars.

This is consistent with the hypotheses:
- edition wars are inevitable
- edition wars have little to do with which system is actually better



Cheers,
Roger

Again where is evidence that fear of change = edition wars?

All you said was they were inevitable...uhm ok but how does that speak to cause? And they have little to do with which sytem is actually better...this isn't even a fact, it's an opinion and again doesn't support... fear of change = edition wars.

 

[Roger]

Again where is evidence that fear of change = edition wars?

Where is the evidence that "fear of change = edition wars" is the hypothesis presented by the OP? As far as I can tell based upon my reading, that is not the case, but I'm happy to consider citations that might support it.



Cheers,
Roger

 

[Umbran]

Whoa, Umbran I wasn't trying to insinuate killing someone over sports was right or for the "love of the game"...

I make no claim that you think it is at all *right*. But your phrasing does seem to imply causation.

Let me restate - yes, folks die in sports arguments. I find it difficult to believe that the death has anyting at all to do with the sports, or love of the game, or what have you. For things to get that heated, and for someone to go that far over the line, something else has to be happening in there somewhere. It isn't all about the sports. Agreed?

Now, clearly Edition Wars aren't at all equivalent to murder. But that doesn't mean the example's useless. For many months, a large portion of our community behaved in manners we largely agree are inappropriate and counterproductive for these forums. People who knew better, who admitted they knew better, chose to abandon civility.

Why is it so odd to think there's something in that situation that's not about the game, that there's something else (perhaps several something elses) going on here?

We are a community, a small society, right? We should expect some social dynamics to be at work, beyond just what we individually like and don't like about a game. We are not rational robots or Vulcans (at least, most of us aren't ).

just that I don't think it goes to some deep seated fear of change everyone is having.

I think the OP, and others, have pointed out several times now that it isn't "fear" of change. Drop the word fear - it is loaded and doesn't really apply. Resistance does not equal fear.

Anyone here ever been subjected to the book "Who Moved My Cheese?" Much of it is nonsense, or oversimplified. However, it has some basic concepts within that ring fairly true. When people have a way of doing things that they are comfortable with, they will often resist changing it, and will resent attempts to change it. This is not "fear".

 

[Herschel]

I can also say I've seen resistance to change in my own life. I still have not chosen to purchase digital music, preferring CDs I can then convert to MP3 for my Zune.

What is this CD, MP3 and "Zune" of which you speak? A pair of Technics 1200s and vinyl is all a man needs for audio perfection.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Indeed.

The OP seems to implicitly posit that 4e is the change that must be adapted to; I think this betrays the OP's preference.

Sure, you can read it like that. But I read it as him describing the context where he makes this observation regarding reaction to change.
And he sees parallels between the reactions in the "Edition Wars".

And it doesn't matter if you HAVE to change. Needed is just a feel of pressure to change. (Just as you do not actually have to adapt to every change on your workplace - Truename even says that sometimes the team will make a final decision on whether its adopts a change or not.)
And this pressure certainly exists, because why else would people post so much on why they like or dislike these editions and justify their choices (or spring to defend them).

 

[Scott_Rouse]

"Don't sell the customers what they want, convince them that they want what you're selling."

Depressing.

That is the way the world works bro. People didn't know they wanted a game where you pretend to be an elf killing dragon until Dave and Gary made it and sold it to them. Before D&D people were happy to pretend to be Napoleon or Rommel moving little lead armies around on a map. Then Dave and Gary showed them a new way to play a game.

And what does the customer want? If I ask 10 of you what you want in a RPG I'll likely get 5 different answers. If I take those answers, measure them, and apply the results, I bet we start to get a RPG that is different enough that suddenly the edition wars begin.

 

[Scribble]

What is this CD, MP3 and "Zune" of which you speak? A pair of Technics 1200s and vinyl is all a man needs for audio perfection.

Except while jogging...

That is the way the world works bro. People didn't know they wanted a game where you pretend to be an elf killing dragon until Dave and Gary made it and sold it to them.

I asked my dentist once which toothpaste he reccomended... He said it didn't really matter, toothpaste didn't really add anything to the act of brushing. I could get the same results just using a brush and water...

I think he just wanted more of my business.

 

[Korgoth]

That is the way the world works bro. People didn't know they wanted a game where you pretend to be an elf killing dragon until Dave and Gary made it and sold it to them. Before D&D people were happy to pretend to be Napoleon or Rommel moving little lead armies around on a map. Then Dave and Gary showed them a new way to play a game.

In all fairness, people didn't know they wanted Crystal Pepsi either.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

Except while jogging...



I asked my dentist once which toothpaste he reccomended... He said it didn't really matter, toothpaste didn't really add anything to the act of brushing. I could get the same results just using a brush and water...

I think he just wanted more of my business.

Sorry scrib, you quoted me while I was editing so this nonsense about your dentist is lost on everyone but me