D&D 5E The New Fighter
- Thread starter kerleth
- Start date
I really liked Fighter's MDD being a mini-resource management, a form of combat currency you could spend or save tactically. But then I found out that they recharged every turn (on yours and everyone else's) and they became a rather brainless way to do 'more damage'.
I liked them, and was initially horrified to see them gone, but Expertice Dice are a similar form of resource management - better yet they are an encounter resource that is grounded in realism (a quasi fatigue system). For me EX.Dice are a mini stroke of brilliance.
Jeff Carlsen
Adventurer
I definitely disagree. Encounter resources have little appeal to me. But I will agree that being able to use them for damage was the most compelling option most of the time. That can be solved, though, without removing them as a round based resource.
Heck, I could see using the system almost exactly like it is, but instead of getting a finite number of dice, you can instead use your skill die once per round on one of the described maneuvers.
If the artificiality of them is mitigated by a believable simulation (in this case mental and physical fatigue), then why dislike them?
They open a lot of tactical design space for a class that has traditionally had little to do each round besides "attack" or "full attack".
It's much easier to simulate fatigue by saying you have a 1d6 chance each round to restore one of your fatigue points. Or whatever % chance. Similar to a dragon's breath, they should make a unified fatigue mechanic that's not encounter-based but rather round by round, so that you can fight for 10 rounds and to the same amount of cool stuff that you could do in two 5 round combats. I detest encounter powers and artificial rest delimitations that vary based on the amount of time it took for the last combat to be over.
Blade of Darkness was a great game that simulated this well, do your super swing? You're winded for a round. It's good for a finishing move in that case, rather than an opener like virtually all encounter powers were in 4e. You don't hold on to encounter powers till the last swing of combat, but you might if there were a fatigue mechanic behind it, waiting for your next round. A barbarian's rage would just mean they spend all their fatigue points at the start of combat, then can't get fatigued until their rage ends (whenever that is), then they can't regain any until they rest. Or, you could just give Barbarians a decent amount (much more than fighter) of fatigue points and fuel their rage maneuvers and bonuses with those.
Blade of Darkness was a great game that simulated this well, do your super swing? You're winded for a round. It's good for a finishing move in that case, rather than an opener like virtually all encounter powers were in 4e. You don't hold on to encounter powers till the last swing of combat, but you might if there were a fatigue mechanic behind it, waiting for your next round. A barbarian's rage would just mean they spend all their fatigue points at the start of combat, then can't get fatigued until their rage ends (whenever that is), then they can't regain any until they rest. Or, you could just give Barbarians a decent amount (much more than fighter) of fatigue points and fuel their rage maneuvers and bonuses with those.
am181d
Adventurer
I'm not aware of any rule that make you rest a *variable* amount of time to recover encounter resources. Isn't it always just "a short rest"?
I'm not keen on *individual* 1/Enc abilities for martial characters -- You're now too tired to do Maneuver X, but you still have plenty of energy for Maneuver Y??? -- but I'm fine with all Enc abilities drawing from a common, expendable "stamina pool" that can be recovered with a short rest. I *believe* that that's how the Expertise dice work in the latest playtest, but maybe I'm missing something?
Jeff Carlsen
Adventurer
I don't dislike them. They simply don't appeal to me. Whereas the first implementation of expertise dice felt like a mechanic that represented something I never knew I was missing.
Klaus
First Post
A couple of ideas:
- Optional recovery: when you spend an Expertise Die, and roll a 6, you get the die back at the end of your action.
- Recovery as an action: maybe the fighter could get something extra when he spends an action refocusing, like temporary hit points (or even regain hit points)?
- Optional recovery: when you spend an Expertise Die, and roll a 6, you get the die back at the end of your action.
- Recovery as an action: maybe the fighter could get something extra when he spends an action refocusing, like temporary hit points (or even regain hit points)?
Szatany
First Post
Sure, like an action that makes each ally within reach attack the same target at once. That'd be cool.
Thanks!
I feel like there is room with some of these systems (basically any of them with a decent recharge method) to find a good compromise on global vs. fighter-only maneuvers, especially common ones like disarm, etc. One of the complaints WotC wanted to address in the latest packet is some players not wanting to sacrifice damage in order to perform maneuvers. I like that trade-off, but I can understand those who do not. And in any case, the current fighter lost at least some charm in addressing this concern. Maybe "combat rhythm" will permit an acceptable compromise, giving broader access to maneuvers while allowing fighters to remain special and not face the damage vs. maneuver tradeoff.
With combat rhythm the choice is spending dice vs. not spending dice, and extra damage isn't the default any more than tripping is. Because the risk of losing the dice for future rounds is always present one can't spam it, so it is a special bonus over the default attack. (And this it shares with the current packet.)
Other combatants, however, could give up weapon damage dice to perform basic maneuvers. Which is fine since these classes don't specialize in using maneuvers, or ever learn them in any proper sense without multiclassing or possibly some feats. A Paladin with 3 weapon damage dice is, at best, as good with maneuvers as a fighter with 3 weapon damage dice and no combat rhythm (i.e. a fighter having bad luck). A fighter with any combat rhythm dice is strictly superior: more powerful maneuvers are possible, maneuver use is more flexible, the tradeoff is more favorable (base damage unchanged), and barring some bad luck the fighter is likely to maintain these advantages for a great deal of the fight.
This might also support a nice conceptual separation between classes for the purposes of improvised maneuvers, by letting the fighter pay for those from the combat rhythm pool, and making other classes use weapon damage dice. The fighter can be a superlative improviser, but other classes can still try things. In a sense if you're not a fighter you are improvising, and I think that is a thematically satisfying perspective. (Contrast that to expertise dice as a universal martial mechanic, where the fighter has trouble standing out to many people even if they have all sorts of advantages within the system.)
(The usual unresolved issue is this: can one "improvise" an existing maneuver the fighter hasn't specifically learned, or reuse improvised maneuvers. The solutions, besides ignoring the situation entirely, are either to impose an additional penalty on improvised/unlearned maneuvers or not to have "learning a maneuver" be a game concept. The latter seems unlikely in D&D, but I think we can do the former well. When improvising the fighter has disadvantage on the attack for the purposes of retaining any combat rhythm dice spent. The attack itself is not penalized, the chance to retain combat rhythm dice is only moderately penalized, and the fighter is still better off than any non-fighter. Nevertheless, there is a clear incentive to train in maneuvers one plans to use with any frequency.)
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