Scribble
First Post
It's mostly past tense, in tat the majority of it's cataclysmic effects happened well before the start of the campaign setting.
There are still some lingering effects in the present campaign setting, however.
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The New Forgotten Realms - (About) A Year Later
- Thread starter Mercurius
- Start date
It's mostly past tense, in tat the majority of it's cataclysmic effects happened well before the start of the campaign setting.
There are still some lingering effects in the present campaign setting, however.
UniversalMonster
First Post
This week the LFR adventure I am running takes place in some Mulhorandi ruins in a recently surfaced area of the Raurin desert. It's a MyRealms adventure, which means I wrote it myself. I loved Mulhorand too. Which is why I am featuring it in Living Realms!
Tilenas
Explorer
Well, all that depends on your playing style. If your heroes set out to save the world from the get-go, then there will always be some big-ass NPC who beats them to it.
But I, for one, like a more small-scale, more intimate campaign, where the PCs face issues and adversaries that simply aren't worth anyone else's while. Obviously, this style of play is mainly suited for low-level characters.
For more experienced PCs I'd say that there's so much going on in the Realms, you could easily rule that every hero-NPC is caught up with thwarting a villain-NPC. The PCs are there to tip that balance.
darkranger65
First Post
I have just come back to D&D after 4 years. I have played 3 sessions (player once and DM twice), all based in the realms, and I think the new Realms fits the heroic aspect of the 4th edition rules. Granted the players are barely 2nd level but the game ran really smooth and the players (2 where familiar the old realms) enjoyed it and were not bothered by the changes.
Renshai
First Post
I played in the Forgotten Realms since the early articles in Dragon Magazine and the release of the Gray Boxed set. For me, the Realms reached their height when Steven Schend wrote the Empires of the Shining Sea and Lands of Intrigue. To this date I judge all roleplaying supplements by comparing them to those two products. I got more enjoyment and ideas from them that I have from anything else.
As a long time collector of Realmslore and products, the 4E setting was kind of a slap in the face. My old maps were mostly useless, my old supplements made obsolete other than for historical reference.
I tried to give it a chance, I read the Camapign Guide and the Player's Guide at least twice each after buying them, and I couldn't help but feel like I'd been cheated each time I read them. They just don't seem to have the depth previous products had.
So, I tried running the core 4E adventures in the implied setting, but ended up feeling like there wasn't enough depth. I don't like Eberron either.. so I left 4E behind and returned to WFRP.
As a long time collector of Realmslore and products, the 4E setting was kind of a slap in the face. My old maps were mostly useless, my old supplements made obsolete other than for historical reference.
I tried to give it a chance, I read the Camapign Guide and the Player's Guide at least twice each after buying them, and I couldn't help but feel like I'd been cheated each time I read them. They just don't seem to have the depth previous products had.
So, I tried running the core 4E adventures in the implied setting, but ended up feeling like there wasn't enough depth. I don't like Eberron either.. so I left 4E behind and returned to WFRP.
Call me bizarro, but, while I didn't run the Realms often, I never ran into the problem of "WELL WHY DOESN'T <NPC> FIX IT." Just pause and think about how many villains there are in FR. If a player asks why a certain NPC isn't coming to help, what do you do as a DM?
You raise your eyebrows and say "Well, that IS a good question, isn't it?"
Bam. Instant plot thread.
Maybe they can investigate it after they're done with their quest. Maybe a short side quest will show that <NPC> is holding back another group of villains to ensure that the PCs are able to defeat the Big Bad (And as a player, it feels awesome knowing that the NPC isn't swooping in to save the day, but is working for me, not with me). Or maybe they meet <NPC> only to find that the Big Bad has done something to remove them, either draining their power or holding them in check somehow.
You raise your eyebrows and say "Well, that IS a good question, isn't it?"
Bam. Instant plot thread.
Maybe they can investigate it after they're done with their quest. Maybe a short side quest will show that <NPC> is holding back another group of villains to ensure that the PCs are able to defeat the Big Bad (And as a player, it feels awesome knowing that the NPC isn't swooping in to save the day, but is working for me, not with me). Or maybe they meet <NPC> only to find that the Big Bad has done something to remove them, either draining their power or holding them in check somehow.
Spellplague (longer than I intended)
When you are introduced to the 4th Ed Realms, the Spellplague is old news. Pretty much no humans who were around for it still live, and they seem to be the most populous race still. Most Elves who were alive when it all happened should be expected to know what it was like (this is my biggest problem with the "only" 100 year jump), and a lot of Dwarves would also know what happened. Some areas are still dangerous directly because of the lingering effects of the plague, but by now it is mostly a case of people congregated together a century ago, and now the intervening areas are overrun by dangerous things again. - giving more room for adventurers.
In theory, people who have been playing in the Forgotten Realms for a while can still enjoy the setting's history, but in a more detached way. A lot of the nations are still there, but with subtle changes to keep them interesting for someone with 20 years of knowledge. Like someone here did, they can visit the ruins of a favorite area that no longer exists, maybe find magic items that belonged to a cherished 3.5E character. In reality, it seems like the biggest fans of the "old" realms are upset because they don't want a detached history, or they don't like the nations that were preserved.
You're basically right about it being a cataclysm event. The story we have is that roughly 100 years before the 4th Edition setting, Cyric (evil god) murdered Mystra (good god who happened to own or control all magic - I'm fuzzy on that). When this happened, the magic Weave that was under Mystra's control went wild - think a fire hose, but with magic instead of water, and a populated world instead of a crowded sidewalk. When this hose whipped around, a twin world (Aebir) crossed with Toril, with tracts of land getting exchanged in some places. This brought over a continent of Genasi, a nation of Dragonborn and some places vanished. In addition, some living things were changed by the Spellplague and some terrain features were warped - partially draining a sea, making a plain into a desert, and sinking a big area into the Underdark.
When you are introduced to the 4th Ed Realms, the Spellplague is old news. Pretty much no humans who were around for it still live, and they seem to be the most populous race still. Most Elves who were alive when it all happened should be expected to know what it was like (this is my biggest problem with the "only" 100 year jump), and a lot of Dwarves would also know what happened. Some areas are still dangerous directly because of the lingering effects of the plague, but by now it is mostly a case of people congregated together a century ago, and now the intervening areas are overrun by dangerous things again. - giving more room for adventurers.
In theory, people who have been playing in the Forgotten Realms for a while can still enjoy the setting's history, but in a more detached way. A lot of the nations are still there, but with subtle changes to keep them interesting for someone with 20 years of knowledge. Like someone here did, they can visit the ruins of a favorite area that no longer exists, maybe find magic items that belonged to a cherished 3.5E character. In reality, it seems like the biggest fans of the "old" realms are upset because they don't want a detached history, or they don't like the nations that were preserved.
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I'm left wondering if it wouldn't have been better for the realms to not make it friendly towards DM's at home. I used the Realms in 2e and 3e for what I use the 4e core setting for now, stealing bits and bpieces to use in my own homebrew, and I have a feeling that most people who bought FR materials were of that mold. I didn't want to take FR in its entirety, but I did buy 3 FR books in 3e which were of interest to me: The Silver Marches, The Moonsea, and the FR Campaign Guide. I didn't care about the rest, though I would have also bought a sourcebook on the Dales if one had been released.
I didn't buy the 4e FRCG or the FRPG, but I did just buy the Scepter Tower of Spellguard. I did this because it matches up very well with the Ruins of Fastormel on the shores of Lake Nen rather than because I care about the ancient wizards of Netheril. The modular nature of 4e's core flavour makes my reliance on FR for high fantasy locations, history and storylines to poach much reduced. I'd prefer if my D&D flavour text doesn't come with FR baggage. Heck, I've come to the realization that I like Greyhawk flavour after 4e wrenched the classic Greyhawk villains and dungeons from their moorings in the campaign setting... though I am still bored stiff by the setting I read about in the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer.
So if they were going to switch tacks and stop using FR as its vehicle for delivering adventures, locales, and other flavour text, and there were only planning to release 3 RPG books outside the core 3, then maybe they should have just left the setting as it was. Sure, it might be better as a novel setting, or you wouldn't want to play it unless you were in the RPGA (where the modules are vetted for setting accuracy) because of the preponderance of notable names and backstory... but maybe D&D intellectual property is as much about reading and enjoying content as playing the game.
The thing about FR is that while most would never play it, it was always enjoying to read. Volo's Guides were suffocating as canonical game material, but they were great for reading. I always return to my 2e Forgotten Realms Adventures hardcover when designing a new city, and 3e FRCS was a textbook in campaign setting design (every paragraph should have an adventure hook).
Myth Drannor is representative of everything that is wonderful and awful about the Forgotten Realms. It is the most wondrous, beautiful and enchanting deathtrap ever made* with a rich story filled with unexpected surprises around every corner. It was however a horrible module with arbitrary death, overpowered magical items, and an overwhelming amount of trivia. But in terms of enjoyable D&D game material to read and immerse yourself in, it is hard to beat it.
*And they made it into a living elven city again in the closing days of 3e. Blah! What a waste of an excellent ruin.
I didn't buy the 4e FRCG or the FRPG, but I did just buy the Scepter Tower of Spellguard. I did this because it matches up very well with the Ruins of Fastormel on the shores of Lake Nen rather than because I care about the ancient wizards of Netheril. The modular nature of 4e's core flavour makes my reliance on FR for high fantasy locations, history and storylines to poach much reduced. I'd prefer if my D&D flavour text doesn't come with FR baggage. Heck, I've come to the realization that I like Greyhawk flavour after 4e wrenched the classic Greyhawk villains and dungeons from their moorings in the campaign setting... though I am still bored stiff by the setting I read about in the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer.
So if they were going to switch tacks and stop using FR as its vehicle for delivering adventures, locales, and other flavour text, and there were only planning to release 3 RPG books outside the core 3, then maybe they should have just left the setting as it was. Sure, it might be better as a novel setting, or you wouldn't want to play it unless you were in the RPGA (where the modules are vetted for setting accuracy) because of the preponderance of notable names and backstory... but maybe D&D intellectual property is as much about reading and enjoying content as playing the game.
The thing about FR is that while most would never play it, it was always enjoying to read. Volo's Guides were suffocating as canonical game material, but they were great for reading. I always return to my 2e Forgotten Realms Adventures hardcover when designing a new city, and 3e FRCS was a textbook in campaign setting design (every paragraph should have an adventure hook).
Myth Drannor is representative of everything that is wonderful and awful about the Forgotten Realms. It is the most wondrous, beautiful and enchanting deathtrap ever made* with a rich story filled with unexpected surprises around every corner. It was however a horrible module with arbitrary death, overpowered magical items, and an overwhelming amount of trivia. But in terms of enjoyable D&D game material to read and immerse yourself in, it is hard to beat it.
*And they made it into a living elven city again in the closing days of 3e. Blah! What a waste of an excellent ruin.
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jdrakeh
Front Range Warlock
Wow! I think that's the first time I've ever seen somebody talk about the Myth Drannor boxed set being anything other than a horrible product. Goes to show, I guess, that one man's floor is another man's ceiling.
Why would any actor in LA ever spend time training to become a better actor? Why show up at an audition? I mean, who cares that Joe Johnson is some new actor, and could play Hamlet well when Brad Pitt is around, and way more experienced and well-known?
The whole argument about there being too many NPCs in the Forgotten Realms is just as silly. I've seen tonnes of people make it, and use it as a reason why they don't like the setting. But really....
Reading through the FRCS, there is a population of 69,702,416 people in Faerun, to say nothing of the populations of Kara-Tur, Maztica, or Al-Qadim. Out of all the materials for the setting, I bet there are fewer than 500 named NPCs. Having counted through the FRCS, I can say there are about 121 (I counted every one I could find in the geography chapter). And those are many of the major/famous ones.
Assuming there are 379 more in the other books, that leaves 500....which is still only 0.0007% of the population. These numbers are so unimaginably big that most people can't even really conceive of them. Consequently, 500 people are a tiny, tiny proportion of those numbers.
I really think that people overstate the prevalence of these NPCs. Faerun is a huge continent. There are tens of millions of people on it. What are the odds that your PCs are ever going to run into these NPCs? They're probably not that high.
I think back to my life, and I've probably met 2 famous people...Ronald Reagan and Bryan Mulroney. Both were by chance, and in both instances, they had better things to do than worry about what I was doing for my job. Why would matters be any different for the PCs?
These famous NPCs would be far too busy with the affairs they already have as responsibilities......taking care of their own business, handling the hundreds of requests for help that they get from locals (you want your cat out of the tree? It's kind of beneath me as I was killing great wyrm red dragons on the weekend, but you know my wife's brother's cousin's best friend, and well, I'm an all around nice guy, so I guess I will), giving autographs, and all that.
I just don't see that argument holding much weight. If the players are instructing the DM that they want to meet a certain NPC because the book says he lives in X town or building, or if the DM keeps having X NPC save the day, then the game has got more significant problems, and they're not the result of the campaign setting.
Banshee
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