The New Style

[Nifft]

That's taking Gygax-worship too damn far.

Eh, nothing wrong with a little idle worship.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hussar]

Spot on. When I first heard about the 'Points of Light' I had just finished re-watching the Dungeons & Dragons DVD set that came out fairly recently and I realized that the cartoon was exactly what they were describing with that concept.

Then I shook my head sadly and rolled my eyes realizing that by this time next year the character stats that came with the DVD set would be worthless next year. :\

Let's not forget though that the cartoons resonate with gamers so well because those rolls were established long ago. They might have been called different things, they might have been fuzzily defined, but, the four roles of characters are a direct descendant of the roles of different unit types in tabletop wargames.

 

[Gentlegamer]

That's taking Gygax-worship too damn far. Whatever qualities he has as a game designer or writer, he's no legendary producer.

He certainly is. He got the D&D cartoon on the air during a time when no studio would deal with TSR (because of the Blumes).

 

[Celebrim]

The D&D cartoon was and is sophisticated interesting entertainment which showed maturity and character development beyond anything currently available in American animation.

Granted, it's not going to be nearly as fun for you as an adult as it was when you were 12, but watching the old episodes there are only a few of them I can't see as adult entertainment if they were given a full hour to develop the dialogue in a more mature way. Some of the episodes are simply just great stories. I think they aged better than Transformers, Thundercats, or GI Joe. Other than JMS's way underrated, 'The Real Ghostbusters' and Batman:TAS, I have a hard time thinking of a dramatic kid's cartoon that can be as consistantly be watched as an adult. Certainly only things like the classic Looney Toons have aged better for me.

Transformers, GI Joe, The Dungeons & Dragons Cartoon, Pole Position, The Completely Mental Misadventures of Ed Grimley, Alf-tales, Thundercats, Ducktales, Tiny Toons, Animaniacs, Droids, The Real Ghostbusters, Garfield and Friends, Gummy Bears. The range and depth of after school and saturday morning animation of the mid-80's has just never been paralleled. And while Batman: The Animated Series (1992-1995) and the Simpsons (1989-) are more sophisticated shows, they really mark the last (now fading) legacy of the explosion in television animation in the 80's. (And actually, has the Simpsons been consistantly good sense the 3rd season or so?)

Today's PBS educational cartoons are better than just about any cartoon on TV. That's how low things have gotten.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

The D&D cartoon had Willie Aimes (Ranger) and Donny Most (Cavalier), and Gary Gygax (Producer).

No other cartoon can even hope to compare.

really? I thought Gargoyle's was pretty cool. well animated. progressive story. A resolution. Lots of legend and lore tie in. dynamic round characters. Yeah, I think it exceeds the comparison.

I would say in terms of plot, animation, story, and everything that goes into evaluating and judging a cartoon or animation, i think thunder cats is more on par with d&d cartoon if not a tad better (cuz thier cats after all)

 

[Moon-Lancer]

the fact that the d&d cartoon has one goal that is never fulfilled really puts a major dent in its greatness. For a cartoon to be considered more like literature in my opinion, it has to have a beginning, middle and end. At least if its using subject matter thats based on a plot and story, as opposed to cartoons that have a message each episode, and in terms of plot, has none. Like family guy, south park, Simpson's... i think shows that have a visaed of progressive story are sad. They could have been amazing and great, but they chose use a model to produce endless episodes until cancellation instead of telling a story. its almost as if it needs to avoid the story itself so the story never progresses past the point of no return. its like balancing on the edge of a ravine . Sadly most cartoons in America fail this very simple test.

Anime in this respect, has a 1up. many animes have a set run. They have a story to tell and its normally around 20 or so episodes. Some dont obviously, and run until canceled, but some are very compact.

I guess what i'm saying is i wish the d&d cartoon had a real story with a plot line similar to a book.

*edited spelling*

 

[Gentlegamer]

D&D had a series finale that was never produced. The script for it is available on the internets somewhere. It's quite good. It was intended to set up a new series of the show where the kids focused on using their own skills rather than their magical gear to succeed.

As for the one goal never fulfilled: they had a chance to go home in one episode, but it would mean leaving Venger to rule the Realm. Like true heroes, they couldn't go home and leave others to suffer, so they willingly returned to the Realm to continue to fight Venger.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

its really sad when final episodes never get made. If d&d did intend to have a true ending in season 2, then I misjudged it.

*edited for clarity*

 

[Imp]

Transformers, GI Joe, The Dungeons & Dragons Cartoon, Pole Position, The Completely Mental Misadventures of Ed Grimley, Alf-tales, Thundercats, Ducktales, Tiny Toons, Animaniacs, Droids, The Real Ghostbusters, Garfield and Friends, Gummy Bears. The range and depth of after school and saturday morning animation of the mid-80's has just never been paralleled. And while Batman: The Animated Series (1992-1995) and the Simpsons (1989-) are more sophisticated shows, they really mark the last (now fading) legacy of the explosion in television animation in the 80's. (And actually, has the Simpsons been consistantly good sense the 3rd season or so?)

While I come here to geek out on dice and monsters, every now and then something comes up to remind me that when I do this I step into a funhouse mirror where everything that is true is reversed and the nearly incomprehensible becomes the canon. Don't get me wrong, it is good that there are people who enjoy all these shows, because enjoyment is good and people should get to partake in it. But I cannot possibly begin to argue with this here because I cannot imagine where I would start.

:: steps back into the Far Realm ::

Ah. Comfort. Coherence!

 

[Klaus]

D&D had a series finale that was never produced. The script for it is available on the internets somewhere. It's quite good. It was intended to set up a new series of the show where the kids focused on using their own skills rather than their magical gear to succeed.

As for the one goal never fulfilled: they had a chance to go home in one episode, but it would mean leaving Venger to rule the Realm. Like true heroes, they couldn't go home and leave others to suffer, so they willingly returned to the Realm to continue to fight Venger.

IIRC, there was also an episode where they DID get back, but were promptly followed by Venger. Seeing as though they had nothing to match Venger's might on Earth, they tricked him back through the portal to the Realm.

D&D episodes that rock so much, they should be playing with Jagger and Richards:
- The town at the edge of midnight. Boy, talk about a creepy episode. The main villain is a DEMOn that keeps CHILDREN as SLAVES! Re-read that description. Demon. Children. Slaves. In 1983!
- The Stargazer's Son. How often had children's television featured such a dramatic "starcrossed lovers" story that doesn't end with them together? And let's not forget: half-DEMON villainess.
- The Dragon's Graveyard. Kid heroes who finally have had enough and set out to KILL the main villain? They actually plot to KILL him!
- The girl that dreamed tomorrow. Wow. Intense episode. Starcrossed sweethearts (can't really call them lovers, can we?), inner fighting (with some of the most effective color palletes), evidence of "NPCs" dying (the soldiers' armor), a truly terrifying final monster, a heartbreaking parting and an amazing glimpse of hope.

In the D&D cartoon the kids showed a definite growth in their abilities. By the time the episode with the faerie dragons came up, they were very competent (even Presto and Eric).