D&D 5E The OGL -- A Lesson for 5E

[JoeGKushner]

There is a lot of legitimate beef between Paizo and WotC due to how things were handled with 4E. Maybe they'd struggle their way back to something if 5E was a super super resounding success, but the few Paizo employees I've talked to...not so much.

Are you saying there's legitimate beef or can you point to some references online where Paizo employees point out their 'beef' with WoTC?

 

[JonWake]

Indeed. Once the Open Source Genie is out of its box, you can never put it back.
Look at it this way: even Microsoft is trying to use Open Source software now.

WoTC's mistake with 3e wasn't the SRD, because there is almost no evidence that it had an impact on their sales, but the fact they never completed the cycle. Rather than integrate the best ideas coming out of the OGL era, they kept working on 3.5 in a vacuum, strangling the flow of creativity. Making open source work means that you have to leverage the resources the fans make, rather than stepping away and nodding sagely.

 

[JonWake]

I think you're reading too much ire into my statement.
I like Paizo. They're a good company.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Indeed. Once the Open Source Genie is out of its box, you can never put it back.
Look at it this way: even Microsoft is trying to use Open Source software now.

WoTC's mistake with 3e wasn't the SRD, because there is almost no evidence that it had an impact on their sales, but the fact they never completed the cycle. Rather than integrate the best ideas coming out of the OGL era, they kept working on 3.5 in a vacuum, strangling the flow of creativity. Making open source work means that you have to leverage the resources the fans make, rather than stepping away and nodding sagely.

To be fair - there were publishers that believed that the sole purpose of the OGL was to allow WotC to 'steal' ideas. (Chaosium, a company that I very much admire, was among that number - a sign that intelligent companies can come up with some really silly ideas....)

I do think that WotC could have benefited by using OGL material themselves, but by then I think that they feared that adding to and/or using OGC would come back to haunt them.

Paizo, who's rule material is entirely based on OGC, has no such concern, and are quite willing to use OGC, both new and old, and to add to the OGC in turn.

The Auld Grump

 

[JonWake]

To be fair - there were publishers that believed that the sole purpose of the OGL was to allow WotC to 'steal' ideas. (Chaosium, a company that I very much admire, was among that number - a sign that intelligent companies can come up with some really silly ideas....)

The Auld Grump

That is some 20th century thinking, there.

I agree that WoTC would be held to a higher standard, and if they'd gone the re-purposing route, it would have changed the way people think about game design for good, and brought the perception far more in-line with how games are actually designed.

What's the saying? Amateurs borrow, geniuses steal.

 

[Cadfan]

You are confusing the OGL, OGC, and the SRD. The SRD is the rules, OGC is Open Game Content - including that of other publishers, and the OGL is the license.

The OP was referring to direct compatibility with OGL game material, not release under an OGL license. From the OP:

Second, they need to make this new edition directly compatible (not just backward-compatible) with Open Gaming License material. This would allow them to compete directly with Paizo, and enjoy a larger slice of the customer base. Even a conversion manual for previous editions would go a long way to increasing the new edition's appeal.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

The OP was referring to direct compatibility with OGL game material, not release under an OGL license. From the OP:

Ah, sorry, I was taking your post on its own merits.

I think that an OGL would have done 4e a world of good, but I do not think that it would have needed to be 3.X compatible.

Of course, telling GMs not to bother converting didn't exactly help matters.... Direct compatibility is not required, but being able to convert a campaign is still a good thing....

It added fuel to the claim that 4e was not a new edition, it was a new game masquerading as a new edition.

The Auld Grump

 

[Kynn]

Part of me wishes the third party publishers who are contributing on "5e must have OGL!!" threads would at least have the dignity to disclose their interests instead of just pretending their argument is that it'll great for WotC to have an OGL.

 

[Cybit]

Are you saying there's legitimate beef or can you point to some references online where Paizo employees point out their 'beef' with WoTC?

I can look online, but most of these have come over drinks near or at the LGS. Living in Bellevue / the Seattle area often means you end up interacting with many folks on a personal level. (For instance, Chris Sims' brother is a frequent visitor of some of my roommates, and thus, they know Chris as well. The old LGS I used to frequent often led to conversations with Richard Garfield. Etc.)

Maybe I just ran into a few folks who weren't happy about it, and the rest of 'em are cool, but friends who work at the game stores themselves and also have multiple employees as their legitimate friends seem to also hear the same things.

 

[JonWake]

Part of me wishes the third party publishers who are contributing on "5e must have OGL!!" threads would at least have the dignity to disclose their interests instead of just pretending their argument is that it'll great for WotC to have an OGL.

Who would those be?