The OGL: Why is this really happening, and what to do now...

[mamba]

No. This is not what I say.
I can do boycotts. But I can lift them if I think they have fullfilled their job.

then why not boycott the movie? You were the one saying

I instead will tell everyone I know to see that movie if it is actually good.
Having the movie tank does not only affect WotC.

So after WotC makes an offer that is not an insult anymore, I can buy/subscribe again.
Using the nucular option, which is NEVER EVER BUYONG ANYTHING AGAIN WITH WOTC OR D&D ON IT, is misplaced right now. We can resort to that later.

that I kinda agree with, but the longer they drag this out, the less inclined I am to return - and so far they yet have to make an acceptable offer too

 

[Aspirinsmurf]

First, I don't have an adversary in this.

If you don't find WotC's recent actions to be adversarial, I'm not sure if you have any skin in the game, so to speak. And that's fine. But it means we're on different continents here.

 

[Dustin_00]

3PP companies cannot trust the licensing ecosystem. Everybody go get some other job and quit doing full-time gaming work.

Complete hyperbole. I good license, like OGL 1.2 could be, or ORC could be, can be trusted. IF we get those in place we can have a better and brighter future.

Head on over to the #ORC boards, those 1,500 3PP creators and legal teams would love to hear they have nothing to fear.

 

[mamba]

No. I don't believe that will happen with a good OGL 1.2. If we can push WotC to improve the OGL 1.2 it can improve the whole ecosystem.

do you agree that the draft 1.2 is still a long way from being that?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

then why not boycott the movie?

I don't think it is the right move. I think boycotting dndbeyond is better tool right now.

I want a D&D movie be successful, because I want it to be the start of a trend.
If WotC won't make a fair offer in the next two month, I might change my mind. But right now, lets first see, how the dialogue with WotC goes.

And boycotting forever is just not a useful option. Ever.

 

[dave2008]

Head on over to the #ORC boards, those 1,500 3PP creators and legal teams would love to hear they have nothing to fear.

I didn't say there was nothing to fear. The OGL 1.2 isn't there yet, but it is damn close IMO.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

So you are fine with them burning down everything we have?

No. But now there is a dialogue happening. We need some patience now.

 

[Scribe]

No. I don't believe that will happen with a good OGL 1.2. If we can push WotC to improve the OGL 1.2 it can improve the whole ecosystem.

A 'good OGL 1.2' in a world where you allow Wizards to remove OGL 1.0, still removes everything under 1.0.

 

[dave2008]

do you agree that the draft 1.2 is still a long way from being that?

No. I think there needs to be minor revisions to sections 5, 6, & 9 (IIRC). The revisions are fairly minor, but they could have a big impact.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

that I kinda agree with, but the longer they drag this out, the less inclined I am to return - and so far they yet have to make an acceptable offer too

I think you need some patience. A multi hundred million dollar company is no a small boat but a damned big ship. You can't turn it around in a single day.

 

[Scribe]

No. But now there is a dialogue happening. We need some patience now.

For what? They are 100% still intent on removing 1.0. Nothing else is relevant.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

A 'good OGL 1.2' in a world where you allow Wizards to remove OGL 1.0, still removes everything under 1.0.

This is factually wrong. You can grandfather it in.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

For what? They are 100% still intent on removing 1.0. Nothing else is relevant.

Also wrong.

 

[dave2008]

A 'good OGL 1.2' in a world where you allow Wizards to remove OGL 1.0, still removes everything under 1.0.

No, the OGL 1.2 does not deauthorize OGL 1.0(a), that is a separate move by WotC. Nothing in OGL 1.2 invalidates 1.0(a).

However, even if we accept the OGL 1.0(a) is deauthorized (which I don't) it only stops anything new using that license. Just move over to either the CC or OGL 1.2* and your all good.

*Again this assumes the OGL 1.2 is improved as needed.

 

[Scribe]

This is factually wrong. You can grandfather it in.

What part of anything they have said to date, indicates this is happening?

Further, considering 1.2 (or 2.0 or whatever we want to call any and every version of the leaked language) is not remotely 'Open', the point is moot.

1.0, must remain untouched, or strengthened, everything else is an unnecessary concession.

Also wrong.

Show me.

No, the OGL 1.2 does not deauthorize OGL 1.0(a), that is a separate move by WotC. Nothing in OGL 1.2 invalidates 1.0(a).

However, even if we accept the OGL 1.0(a) is deauthorized (which I don't) it only stops anything new using that license. Just move over to either the CC or OGL 1.2* and your all good.

*Again this assumes the OGL 1.2 is improved as needed.

Everything under the 1.0, would remain there, in some legal limbo, if the 1.0 is deauthorized. Going to CC (and no I wont go to 1.2) wont fix that. Nor will ORC.

 

[dave2008]

For what? They are 100% still intent on removing 1.0. Nothing else is relevant.

Yes, but that is separate from OGL 1.2. The could make the OGL 1.0(b) that everyone is asking for and still "deauthorize" OGL 1.0(a). WotC has intentionally, and correctly, separated the two moves.

 

[Scribe]

Yes, but that is separate from OGL 1.2. The could make the OGL 1.0(b) that everyone is asking for and still "deauthorize" OGL 1.0(a). WotC has intentionally, and correctly, separated the two moves.

To pull a veil over the eyes of folks.

1.2 will never be Open. It will never be as good as 1.0. To accept it in any fashion weakens the community position for 1.0 (a or hypothetical b).

 

[dave2008]

Everything under the 1.0, would remain there, in some legal limbo, if the 1.0 is deauthorized. Going to CC (and no I wont go to 1.2) wont fix that. Nor will ORC.

Show me.

If OGL 1.2 has everything you want (basically a 1.0b) why not move to it?

 

[Scribe]

Show me. If OGL 1.2 has everything you want (basically a 1.0b) why not move to it?

If it was what I wanted, it would have no purpose to exist.

 

[dave2008]

If it was what I wanted, it would have no purpose to exist.

I don't know what that means.