OGL The OGL: Why is this really happening, and what to do now...

I mean here's the thing. If they back off entirely then I'm happy to continue to buy Hasbro stuff. If they continue with their moves to remove the existing SRDs out of the OGL 1.0 then I don't have to buy anything from Hasbro again. I don't even think of it as a boycott, just not buying from a company I consider to be unethical. I do that all of the time.

It's not even going to be hard. It's not like Hasbro is an agricultural company or an internet company that I actually need to deal with to live my life because I have no real choice. It's not even an Amazon that makes my life more convenient. Nor is it a Disney that has wormed its way into so many things it's hard to know you're interacting with them until you do. It's a toy and game company. And I can buy toys and games from other companies fairly easily.

I think the biggest thing I'd miss is new Heroquest packs to be honest. All of this nonsense around D&D has put such a sour taste in my mouth that honestly even if they back down completely it may be a while before I want to play "official Wizards branded D&D TMTMTM pat. pending" again anyway. But even there it's a thing I can not just easily do without, it's a thing that both my bank account and my wife would be happier if I did without. There's no real downside for me not buying new stuff from Hasbro really.
This is a fair enough and respectful stance. I think I can live with an OGL 1.2 however if it still is fair to use. I am not ready to let my hopes down that we may reach that point and in no way I will back down from seeing the movie. I have waited too long for it. Even if I might end up going full LevelUp or something else, I still want to get as many people into roleplaying as I can. Having a blockbuster movie to lure them in and then telling people who want to play the game, that we instead of D&D rather play LevelUp or The Black Eye or TORG or PbtA or whatever, I think it is worth it.
 

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mamba

Hero
I don't think it is the right move. I think boycotting dndbeyond is better tool right now.
it’s not an ‘instead’, it is an ‘in addition’…

The more pressure they feel, the better

I want a D&D movie be successful, because I want it to be the start of a trend.
Right now I think D&D staying a TTRPG is just fine, it wanting to be more is what got us into this…

If WotC won't make a fair offer in the next two month, I might change my mind. But right now, lets first see, how the dialogue with WotC goes.
ugh, two months, there will be nothing to discuss if we do not keep the pressure up. Also, in two months this will be over, so you are basically sitting it out (apart from DDB)

And boycotting forever is just not a useful option. Ever.
so even if 1.1 had gone into effect you would have been fine with that?
 

I don't think it is all about greed.
It's not just greed (I mean at it's root GREED is there)

Imagine you had a job, you washed plates, and gave them to people about to eat at a buffet.
You got paid well, and enjoyed the job. You want to keep the job (or at least use it to get another similar one)
Your boss comes to you and says "Look, the metric we look at for who keeps this job isn't how well you wash, or how happy the customers are, but how many plates you hand out."
Once you cut your time doing other things, once you perfected handing out plates, you find you can hand out 100 per hour so 750 per day (you get half hour lunch)
Then your boss comes to you and says "If you can ONLY hand out 750 per day next week we have to let you go and try someone knew that thinks they might be able to get up to 800 per day"
You now have a few choices... you could skip lunch (not sure how long that works well) you could find a way to give out more plates, or you can look for another job...


where the overall organization greed is "we need to make more money this year then last, and more so next year" the individual even the C_Os and Presidents and VPs and Product leads... they want to keep there jobs, and to do so they have to hand out more plates (make more money)
 


mamba

Hero
I think you need some patience. A multi hundred million dollar company is no a small boat but a damned big ship. You can't turn it around in a single day.
my patience is whatever it is, I am losing interest in this topic fast, basically out of it already. I have pretty much moved on at this point, if something of interest happens it will be more of a return ;)

Also, they are just wasting time to make this go away in the public eye. They know what we want, they just want to give in as little as possible
 

mamba

Hero
Yes, but that is separate from OGL 1.2. The could make the OGL 1.0(b) that everyone is asking for and still "deauthorize" OGL 1.0(a). WotC has intentionally, and correctly, separated the two moves.
they are only separate because otherwise only those accepting 1.2 would give up on 1.0a, and given the two options that will be literally no one
 


Jer

Legend
Supporter
Thinking about Hasbro and our household, the big two would be Nerf and Power Rangers.
Yeah - I've never been a big Nerf guy and my kid isn't really into it either.

I'd say Transformers or GI Joe would hurt, but it really wouldn't. Despite being engines of nostalgia for my nearly half-century old self I don't actually spend any money on them anymore. I do own the Renegade Transformers RPG, but I picked it up used at a Half Price Books just to check out the Essence20 system - that's the only Transformers purchase I think I've made in over 15 years. And I wish it had been GI Joe instead tbh :)
 

mamba

Hero
That is speculation of course. I am told by lawyers that OGL 1.0 isn't written well and as only worked because it hasn't been challenged. I hope we can get a legally sound document that improves on what the OGL 1.0 started.
I disagree with the first premise, and the current 1.2 is in an even sorrier state when it comes to being revocable, it clearly is while 1.0a has a slight chance of being revocable
 

mamba

Hero
See, I refrain from categorizing in good and evil (except in my D&D game). I try to see their reasoning and understand what they did. Usually it follows some logic.
the question isn’t whether there is some logic to it, but whether it is legal, ethical and moral. Otherwise I might as well punch you in the face and take your wallet, my logic being that then I have more money

The rest of your post is just an excuse that justifies this behavior
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
the question isn’t whether there is some logic to it, but whether it is legal, ethical and moral. Otherwise I might as well punch you in the face and take your wallet, my logic being that then I have more money

If you were a corporation (which I understand is a type of person) then that would be your purpose in life. Unfortunately you are a human (which I understand is the other type of person) and there are rules for you.
 

mamba

Hero
I don't think it is all about greed. I don't run a big company, but generating money you can invest again to gain more money is what companies keeps running. Fall under a certain treshold, and you need to stop investing. Which will often result in your company declining.

I don't think, WotC was close to that point and I think they did a bad move in bad faith and rightfully lost trust. But it is not unreasonal nor evil.
If all they did was produce more / better products that sell well, no one would have said anything… and if you have trouble seeing the difference between that and what WotC did, then I guess there is nothing to discuss

And if you do, then why even bring this up
 

Scribe

Legend
good bad or indifferent that is not the metric they care about.
They don't care if another company ONLY make 5% of what they do... they care tht they COULD make more

it's not WotC vs Green ROnin and who ever makes more wins... it's WotC this year against WotC last year, and the only way to make more is to drive Green Ronin out and capture those sales

INDEED SO.

So can we stop pretending its anything but this?
 

mamba

Hero
If you were a corporation (which I understand is a type of person) then that would be your purpose in life. Unfortunately you are a human (which I understand is the other type of person) and there are rules for you.
my ‘purpose’ does not justify the means… that is true for an individual and a corporation (granted the latter have tilted the playing field quite a bit, but that is a separate topic)
 


If all they did was produce more / better products that sell well, no one would have said anything… and if you have trouble seeing the difference between that and what WotC did, then I guess there is nothing to discuss

And if you do, then why even bring this up
I have no trouble. I think you don´t have trouble. I think we have different opinions.
 


my patience is whatever it is, I am losing interest in this topic fast, basically out of it already. I have pretty much moved on at this point, if something of interest happens it will be more of a return ;)

Also, they are just wasting time to make this go away in the public eye. They know what we want, they just want to give in as little as possible

Maybe. Maybe not.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
my ‘purpose’ does not justify the means… that is true for an individual and a corporation (granted the latter have tilted the playing field quite a bit, but that is a separate topic)
I should have put a smiley at the end of my post to indicate my lack of agreement with my own words. Apologies.
 


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