The Ol' Ready+Silence Combo

[daemonslye]

This has been troubling me for a while now:

1. Cleric casts silence on rogue
2. Rogue moves next to BadGuy Wizard
3. Rogue readies an action to follow B. Wizard if he moves.

Now: What happens? Because this is a "turn based"
system, the Wizard makes a motion to move. Ah ha!
The rogue's action is kicked off. However, because
the Rogues action kicks off in response to the Wizard,
who goes first? What if the Rogue has a better dex?
Does the rogue need to wait until the Wizard moves,
before moving to close?

Or does this happen simultaneously?

If so, would the rogue give up his AoO?

What if the Wizard takes a FRA run action (but simply does
not run his full distance, just enough to cause the rogue
to have to move twice to catch up - thus negating any
further ready action). I understand the Wizard would
need a straight line for a FRA run. Assuming a simo move
when the rogue sets off after the wizard, would he get
an AoO vs the running wizard - even when the wizard
is outdistancing him (and assuming no feat like spring
attack/shot on the run)?

Thanks for your input!

~D

 

[phillipjp]

I had this happen to an NPC party I was running. Battle took place in a big cave -- plenty of room to move but not big enough for a 4x move. Silenced rogue had Boots of SS, so a partial move for him was still 60'.

Mage could not run away to get far enough. A double move for the Mage could not get him far away enough.

In this case, the rogue was also invisible and stated he never intended on attacking or taking AOOs. He was just going to follow the mage around with readied actions to stay 10' away.

Guess what, mage died. The NPC cleric couldn't target the rogue with a dispel because he didn't know where he was. The mage had See Invis, but couldn't tell the cleric because he was silenced.

It was a brilliant move on the party's part. They dispatched the NPC party quickly by neutralizing the mage.

The only solution I could come up with is: next time, all my NPC mage's get Silent Spell.

 

[Pielorinho]

Guess what, mage died. The NPC cleric couldn't target the rogue with a dispel because he didn't know where he was. The mage had See Invis, but couldn't tell the cleric because he was silenced.

Depending on how you run dispel magic, the cleric could have targeted the silence spell with a dispel magic, using the third targeting option under D.M.'s description.

Some folks rule that you can only target a spell whose effects you can see (e.g., wall of flame); if you rule this way, then the cleric wouldn't have had this option.

In any case, in the heat of battle the cleric probably didn't think of this option.

(One more possibility: the mage could have grappled the rogue. With any luck, the rogue would have used his AoO before shouting a silent, "D'OH!" and becoming visible; if he didn't use his AoO, the cleric at least has an idea where to send his dispel magic).

Daniel

 

[hammymchamham]

Please! Correct me if this is wrong:

Lets say initative is in this order (and with numbers)

18 Wizard

Everyone else

9 Rogue (even with that high dex and improved Int he rolled a 1)

on count 9 the rogue readed. Now we're in the next round and the Wizard tries to move away. Since the rogue is readied, the rogues initiative moves to 18 and the rogue goes right before the wizard. The rogue attacks, then the wizard goes if he survived.

The everyone goes, then the next round begins with the rogue at initiative 18...

 

[hammymchamham]

Here's what I'm basing the above on

Ready [Standard][AoO: No]
Description: The ready action lets a character prepare to take an action later, after a character's turn is over but before a character's next one has begun. Readying is a standard action, so a character can move as well. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that a character readies might do so).
Only partial actions can be readied. See the table in the description of "Start full round action" for a list of standard partial actions.
Specify the partial action a character will take and the conditions under which it will be taken. When those conditions are met, the character may take the readied partial action. The partial action comes before the action that triggers it. For the rest of the fight, the character's initiative result is the count on which the character took the readied action, and the character acts immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered the readied action.
If the character takes the readied action into a subsequent round, and the conditions are met before the character's normal initiative, the character's initiative rises to that new point in the order of battle, the character may take the readied action, and whether that action is taken or not, the character does not get a regular action that round.

 

[Shadeus]

Please! Correct me if this is wrong:

Lets say initative is in this order (and with numbers)

18 Wizard

Everyone else

9 Rogue (even with that high dex and improved Int he rolled a 1)

on count 9 the rogue readed. Now we're in the next round and the Wizard tries to move away. Since the rogue is readied, the rogues initiative moves to 18 and the rogue goes right before the wizard. The rogue attacks, then the wizard goes if he survived.

The everyone goes, then the next round begins with the rogue at initiative 18...

That's exactly right. The only thing worth mentioning is that in round 2, when the rogue's readied action takes place, he only gets a standard action (not a full round action).

 

[thegreatbuddha]

Large Air Elemental + Silence = Death to Sepllcasters

I hate it.

 

[Galfridus]

Seems to me a proper ready condition would solve this.

I would say "I ready to follow the spellcaster whenever he does anything beyond a single move."

If the spellcaster moves then casts, the ready triggers as soon as he starts casting, and the rogue moves up and Silences the spell. If the spellcaster double moves, the ready triggers and the rogue follows. Etc.

 

[hammymchamham]

Seems to me a proper ready condition would solve this.

I would say "I ready to follow the spellcaster whenever he does anything beyond a single move."

If the spellcaster moves then casts, the ready triggers as soon as he starts casting, and the rogue moves up and Silences the spell. If the spellcaster double moves, the ready triggers and the rogue follows. Etc.

If the spellcaster moves away then casts, I still get an AoO againt her.

I'd just get next to her and declare my ready as 'if she casts a spell I attack.' The spellcasters only option is to move away, and with boots, I can always out run her. But thats just my opinion

 

[Shiva]

This has been troubling me for a while now:

1. Cleric casts silence on rogue
2. Rogue moves next to BadGuy Wizard
3. Rogue readies an action to follow B. Wizard if he moves.

You can only ready partial actions as per table 8-3 p127 PH.
Follow is unfortunately not a partial action type - the closest is Move.

Now: What happens? Because this is a "turn based"
system, the Wizard makes a motion to move. Ah ha!
The rogue's action is kicked off. However, because
the Rogues action kicks off in response to the Wizard,
who goes first? What if the Rogue has a better dex?
Does the rogue need to wait until the Wizard moves,
before moving to close?

Given my above response, you would execute your readied Move action before the Wizard went any distance, regardless of who has the better dex. So the Wizard gets a benefit from an anomaly in the system.

Or does this happen simultaneously?

According to the PH this would not happen simultaneously, however the DMG does have a section about this, which can be used at the GM's discretion. If so that would void my response above.

If so, would the rogue give up his AoO?

Depends on what the Wizard elects do on his turn

What if the Wizard takes a FRA run action (but simply does
not run his full distance, just enough to cause the rogue
to have to move twice to catch up - thus negating any
further ready action). I understand the Wizard would
need a straight line for a FRA run. Assuming a simo move
when the rogue sets off after the wizard, would he get
an AoO vs the running wizard - even when the wizard
is outdistancing him (and assuming no feat like spring
attack/shot on the run)?

Tricky one - as a DM I would give you the AoO if the Wizard took a RUN action.
It's worthwhile to note that your new initiative is actual slightly higher that 18 - say 18.1, as an ancient response from the Sage put it.
Also there are variant rules that would allow the rogue to forgo his readied action, although he would not be able to substitute another action.