The Paladin killed someone...what to do?

[Lobo Lurker]

give him his first level in Blackguard. he gave into the Dark Side of the Force.


subdual damage on the halfling would've been kosher. but killing him ain't kewl.

I can hear the cleric now. "...and Heironious stripped you of your powers?! She was your wife... mother of your unborn son!" he shakes his head. "Hextor wouldn't have taken your powers. He understands such things..."

 

[Numion]

So, murdering a helpless, defeated prisoner is, according to some, chivalrous, just, honorable and valorous. Riiiight. Pull the other one, why don'tcha?

That's a straw-man argument, because we aren't arguing about murdering a defeated prisoner. Pot, kettle, etc

It was an execution with a little bit unconventional method. Executions can be plenty Lawful, maybe not Good but can be Neutral also. And they always happen to helpless people :\

 

[Old Fezziwig]

That's a straw-man argument, because we aren't arguing about murdering a defeated prisoner. Pot, kettle, etc

What was he then? He was, IIRC, bound and helpless. He was definitely "defeated," and I'd argue he was the paladin's prisoner. So, yeah, we are talking about murdering a defeated prisoner.

 

[Demmero]

Well, by the RAW doesn't state that you lose powers when you piss off your god ..

Actually, they can if they grossly violate the code of conduct (3.5 PHB, pp. 44-45 under "Ex-Paladins").

I would neither advocate going too far in the opposite direction where the Paladin is just a glorified policeman. He still is the gods chosen instrument and carries a lot of duties and expectations that transcend mortal laws.

We agree again. I'd add, though, that in addition to being the god's chosen instrument, a paladin is a living, breathing representative of the god on earth. And if even a handful of people start referring to this particular god as "Heironeous Halfling-Smiter (But Only When They're Helpless!)"...the Big Guy's not gonna be happy with his so-called paladin.

 

[Numion]

What was he then? He was, IIRC, bound and helpless. He was definitely "defeated," and I'd argue he was the paladin's prisoner. So, yeah, we are talking about murdering a defeated prisoner.

IT WASN'T MURDER LALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU

It was indeed a helpless, defeated Halfling prisoner. But murder is distinctly different from execution. Murder is almost by definition [Evil], and it isn't justified. It's my belief that the killing was justified, and thus execution and not murder.

 

[Old Fezziwig]

IT WASN'T MURDER LALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU

It was indeed a helpless, defeated Halfling prisoner. But murder is distinctly different from execution. Murder is almost by definition [Evil], and it isn't justified. It's my belief that the killing was justified, and thus execution and not murder.

Nice.

I do agree with the dichotomy you set up — that's the crux of the issue and where things'd end up swinging one way or the other.

 

[Jim Hague]

So, let's see here:

mur·der ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mûrdr)
n.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

v. mur·dered, mur·der·ing, mur·ders
v. tr.
To kill (another human) unlawfully.
To kill brutally or inhumanly.

The paladin's action was almost certainly in contravention of the local laws, so the first definition checks. Snapping someone's neck, especially when helpless, is pretty much the definition of brutality. Substitute 'being' for 'human' to fit the setting, and it's murder. Not honorable, not chivalrous, not valorous.

Murder. Opinion doesn't change the definition, unless, perhaps, you're in Kansas.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Well is the Paladin empowered to deal out justice? In the nation of Furyondy the Paladin in out game is able to do so as he is a knight of the realm and a minor noble.

 

[Numion]

So, let's see here:

mur·der ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mûrdr)
n.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

What do you know, 20th century earth dictionary doesn't account for divine right to slay evil people when in evil activity. Under that definition the Paladin could never kill anyone unless he somehow worked as an executioner for the city prison, or he somehow ended up being assaulted by all the evil people and it's lawful self-defence. Doesn't go hand-to-hand with the accepted PHB portrayal of pro-active, adventuring Paladins who go out on their way to find evil and vanquish them.

 

[Jim Hague]

Well is the Paladin empowered to deal out justice? In the nation of Furyondy the Paladin in out game is able to do so as he is a knight of the realm and a minor noble.

See, that's a good question...but I'd say in a LG kingdom, since said halfling wasn't caught in the commission of a crime, he'd go to jail, then to trial. And given the paladin's proximity to the issue, I have very serious doubts he could act objectively as court on the street.