The party's cleric *won't* heal your character?!

[SteveC]

As for taking healing away completely... it's not as easy as just crossing out the spells from the list. If you run a combat heavy campaign, then the rules for damage need to be changed so that you can expect the players a decent chance of survival. HP run out like sand through an hourglass with a broken bottom, particular in tougher encounters. If you're playing a combat light campaign where the characters can expect to get into a tough fight once every month or so, you're probably going to be ok. Maybe. If they're lucky.

This is a very important point, and one that a lot of GMs who have made significant changes to the HP system forget. At medium to high levels, even with smart play, you need to heal within a combat to survive it. I played in one campaign briefly that used the "damage conversion" rules where armor transferred some damage from lethal to non-lethal and healing spells did the same. The cure critical wounds transformed 4D8+caster level lethal damage to non-lethal as an example. Without adjusting the combats, once the group reached any real power, the game became ultimately deadly. You were hit all the time, and there was no real way to get HP back in combat.

I remember one combat with hill giants, where one by one the characters were knocked unconscious, where a follow-up blow killed them. Not fun at all.

Assumptions about healing are built into the rules, but they can be tweaked...you just have to be VERY careful about how you do it!

--Steve

 

[green slime]

While the statistics behind combat are often enlightening, you can't really break it down when you're looking at such a small sample size as 2 rounds and say that the Fighter is going to live 2 rounds. One average roll and one slightly above average roll on attacks will mean the Fighter is most likely dead in one round (unless the damage is low).

No, you introduced incorrect bais into the analysis when you earlier stated that the fighter had a 50% chance of dying:

...if he attacks the giant, and the gaint doesn't die before its next action, the Fighter has around a 50% chance of dying.

Dying as in going from 71-(1 attack's worth of damage, between 12 and 26 damage) to -10 or lower based on the fact that the cleric didn't immediately heal him. Which was blatantly untrue.

Even given max damage, it can't happen, (barring Criticals). There isn't a 50% chance of a critical happening. Ergo, the chances of the fighter surviving one round is around 90%, depending on actions, feats, and equipment.

Once there are more than one combatant in the battle, it is difficult to determine which the Giant will beat on.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Kicked to the curb in '74. Team first, team last, team always; what the group needs always trumps what the individual wants.

So, why even bother generating characters? Why not just generate the 'perfect' build for each class and give that to the player when he wants to play a particular class, since obviously any different from the maximized most efficient build would 'hurt the team'. Since when was RP Gaming a competition?

Player skill matters. Coddle them and they'll never learn to play properly.

Says the guy who apparently doesnt let anyone play anything but a preset role. And what exactly IS 'playing properly?' At this point I'm going to guess it's anyone who doesnt play like your group plays?

 

[ThirdWizard]

Dying as in going from 71-(1 attack's worth of damage, between 12 and 26 damage) to -10 or lower based on the fact that the cleric didn't immediately heal him. Which was blatantly untrue.

Actually, a 7th level Fighter with an 18 Con, which is what I pointed out, has an average of 71 hp max, not after a single hit. The 50% chance is a bit erronious, but the chance is still there. It depends on if you go into every battle at full hp or not.

 

[Endur]

At medium to high levels, even with smart play, you need to heal within a combat to survive it.

Not true. We played Living Greyhawk, an extremely combat intensive campaign with +2 to +4 EL encounters. And our party clerics hardly ever needed to do magical healing.

We used tactics, strategy, and buff spells.

When the ac of your point man melee combatant is so high the monsters can't effectively damage the point man, and the firepower of your party is so high the monsters can't survive to get at the back ranks, you don't need magical healing.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I have been wondering something of late as I read this thread. I personally think the "healing Cleric" is likely a crutch that players get accustomed to. You know, once you have access to free healing, you are addicted or something.

Now, I admit that to be an overstatement. But I think there is anhonest truth in there. I prefer D&D played best as a team effort and a group effort. Nothing I hate at the gaming table more than a lone ranger. But when people design characters I think sometimes they design them with the thought in mind that some poor schmuck is going to play a cleric to heal them. I never assume that I'll have access to free healing unless I'm playing a cleric. When I design a character I estimate how this person will receive healing. Will this character need to pay for it? Use potions? Is getting the UMD skill an option? Will the character have to hire an NPC healer? Perhaps try and earn the trust of a healer and bring them on as a cohort through the leadership skill? Etc ... But the one thing I never assume is that they'll have free healing as an option.