The Passion of the Christ

[shilsen]

So, how would you measure this? 7% less people accept the offer of a bacon sandwich after seeing tPotC? 7% fewer people punch a photo of a rabbi when offered after the film? Curious.

I wouldn't measure it. I was expressing my amusement at Green Knight's confident claim that the movie "has DECREASED anti-semitism by 7%", since I don't thnk that is something you can measure.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

I wouldn't measure it. I was expressing my amusement at Green Knight's confident claim that the movie "has DECREASED anti-semitism by 7%", since I don't thnk that is something you can measure.

Even if you can measure the levels of antisemitism (which there are probably studies for) there's almost certainly no way to do it on a fine enough level to say anything about the impact of a film... You could interview people leaving the Passion and those leaving other films, but everyone who's seen the passion knows there were worries about it promoting antisemitism, and will be hyper aware of their responses. Thus enough noise to blur any useful information.

Aside from agreeing that the film's 'value' is in reinforcing preexisting religious beliefs, and very little else on a philosophical or artistic level, I gotta wonder - Is this enough to get the need for torture out of Gibson's system? Now that he's made the ultimate film about the protagonist being hurt, where it's not only useful to the plot but IS the whole plot, is there that chance he can make a few films in a row without a torture scene? I'm just curious.

Kahuna Burger

 

[Henry]

In Kill Bill, you are supposed to like the violence. Here, you are supposed to be revolted by it.

Having watched Kill Bill, I'm of the opinion that Tarentino was going for the latter point, as well.

Subtle.

That's what defines a master at his craft.

 

[Trainz]

Having watched Kill Bill, I'm of the opinion that Tarentino was going for the latter point, as well.

Well, I LIKED the violence in Kill Bill. But that's me.

Nice to see you dropped by Henry. Wanna take bets ? I say 3 pages, tops.

 

[Mercule]

Was Cavaziel actually struck by lightning twice during the filming, or is that a new urban legend?

Yes, he really was. I heard an interview with him where he talked about it. So, that's pretty much "straight from the horses mouth".

I liked the film and will probably own it. Still, even as a strong Christian, I wasn't exceptionally 'moved' by it. That could be for a variety of reasons, though: desensitized to violence, read too many articles/essays on it beforehand, heard too much about how "inspiring" it was (i.e. impossible hype), already internalized and understood what Christ went through, or any number of others.

What I found interesting is that, in the group I attended with -- all close friends, there was an inverse relationship between prior strength of faith (from my perspective, which may be biased) and emotialism after the film. My wife and I are regular church attendees, even on the odd mid-week services during Lent, etc. and we both thought it was worth seeing, but could have gone and had a burger or whatever afterwards. The person who I'd categorize as being in a "seeking" mode was left in tears.

Dunno if my experience was typical or not. I'd imagine that it might be if strong non-Christian beliefs were considered as "strong faith" (i.e. low-impact). In the end, though, such an analysis is pointless.

Well, it should be interesting to see how long this thread remains open.

 

[KChagga]

Personally I have no interest in watching an entire movie about someone being tortured. I don't care if the victim is the son of god or a syphilitic homeless amputee. It doesn't matter that is not something I am going to go to the theatre to see. If a movie has a torture scene in it, that is different than the movie being a drawn out torture scene.

If it ever comes out on tv I might watch it, but I kind of doubt I will stick it out though.
My being decidedly non-christian doesn't make me not want to watch this, since I have seen The Last Temptation of Christ and I loved that film.

 

[Mistwell]

An object of evil which has so far led to four criminals turning themselves in and confessing their crimes after seeing the movie (A man who murdered a woman carrying his baby, a neo-nazi who bombed some anarchist squatters in the mid-90's, another man who murdered his girlfriend and had gotten away with it after her death was ruled a suicide, and a fugitive from a two-year-old bank robbery), which has DECREASED anti-semitism by 7%, and which, instead of convincing Muslims in the Middle East to become suicide bombers, has instead convinced them to look for copies of the New Testament in countries in which conversion away from Islam is illegal? That's the definition of an "object of evil"?

"Rrriiiigggghhhhhttttt."

Woah. If the mods are gonna let you get away with a comment like that, I can't just let it go unchallenged, given how highly inaccurate a statement I believe you just made. I want to see evidence backing up that 7% decrease claim IN THE WORLD, since it is WORLDWIDE anti-semitism that is at concern, not US-ONLY anti-semitism.

On my end:

http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?S=1763845

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) -- Hanan Nsour, a veiled, 21-year-old Muslim in Jordan, came out of "The Passion of the Christ" in tears and pronounced her verdict: Mel Gibson's crucifixion epic "unmasked the Jews' lies and I hope that everybody, everywhere, turns against the Jews."

"...The Jews are the most upset with the movie because it reveals their crimes against the prophets, the reformers and whoever contradicts their opinions,"

http://www.bible-prophecy.com/passion/

Apr. 1, 2004 - So far, the film has been released uncensored in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Bahrain, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates. A longstanding ruling from Al Azhar University -- the ultimate spiritual authority for Muslims worldwide -- forbids the depiction of prophets in movies, and Muslims consider Jesus Christ a prophet. But authorities have made an exception for the controversial film depicting the final hours of Jesus' life. Only Kuwait has blocked its release, citing the ban on portraying prophets. In Egypt, where the film opened to large crowds Wednesday, "it's getting a very special treatment," said Mustafa Darwish, a film critic and former president of the Egypt Censorship Authority "They (the censorship authorities) think the film is anti-Semitic. That's why they are giving it such privilege," Darwish said.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0409/p01s02-wome.html

...But when Yasser Arafat sees it and calls it an important historic event, he's responding to that anti-Semitism. And the fact that it's becoming a major hit in the Arab world, that has consequences." 'The Passion' is where Mel Gibson and Yasser Arafat meet, and it isn't bound by a love of Jesus," he adds. The movie feeds the increasing anti-Semitism in the Arab world, says Professor Sadowski. "This was never the case traditionally but [anti-Semitism] is gradually becoming a factor in the Arab-Israeli conflict," he says. "Many Muslims find the depiction of Jews in this film reassuring."

http://archive.salon.com/ent/feature/2004/04/06/the_passion/index_np.html

April 6, 2004 | AMMAN, Jordan -- Mel Gibson's "The Passion" has been playing on four screens at the Mecca Mall here for nearly three weeks, but the front desk employee at my hotel still suggested that I get to the theater an hour early to buy tickets for a Sunday evening show. She had seen it the night before in a sold-out theater and pronounced it "really amazing." "Muslims are going to see it much more than Christians," she said, "because they want to see the truth of how Jesus was tortured by the Jews." Throughout the Middle East, Muslims and Christians alike are flocking to "The Passion," making the movie a phenomenon to rival "Titanic." Many are driven by simple curiosity, their interests piqued by the controversy surrounding the film. As in America, some people are leaving theaters disgusted by Gibson's Grand Guignol sadism. Many more, though, are leaving theaters believing that Jewish villainy is confirmed by the gospels.

 

[Darkness]

Woah. If the mods are gonna let you get away with a comment like that

Look again. I didn't have to be explicit; it wasn't very difficult to figure out why I dropped by.
Judging from the thread's further progress, I'd say people got the message just fine.

But in case you still think it needs to be spelled out: Debate the movie, people, not real-world religion (or politics).

 

[Henry]

But in case you still think it needs to be spelled out: Debate the movie, people, not real-world religion (or politics).

"Subtle" also requires that people are able to SEE the big stick you're carrying while you're speaking softly.

 

[Endur]

This topic is highly-charged and I apologize for starting the thread. I'm amazed at how many people who didn't see the movie feel the need to make a post trashing the movie.

On the other hand, I guess that's human nature. The Tolkien family (or most of them) refused to have anything to do with the LOTR movies before even seeing the finished product.

Many gamers have decided they won't even look at D&D2 or Catwoman or Punisher. I'd include myself in this camp, as I have serious doubts on all three of these movies.