Pathfinder 2E The Pathfinder Subform Is Definitely Dead - So What?

[GungHo]

The chirurgeon definitely feels like a place they held back a bit because Alchemists kind of have a weird power curve depending on how adaptable you think they are; while I know the community is generally down on them, I feel like there are a lot of people who absolutely swear by their out-of-combat versatility. Personally I think they could have gone a little more ham with them, but while they have some efficiency problems they are definitely not broken.

I added the emphasis to the post above, but some of the limitations folks have around recognizing "out-of-combat versatility" is that some people (players and GMs) are still in the habit of just using the systems for combat and ignoring them for everything else. These things aren't necessarily a "fault" of the system, the GMs, or the players... just some effects of really old habits that limit people recognizing what various things can happen by design because they never looked for them/valued them in the first place. I sometimes catch myself rolling up a character like I'm going to play a computer game and make a pure blaster caster simply because I forgot there was an entire other aspect to the game.

 

[GreyLord]

Some thoughts:

First, I don’t think the subforum is dead since by the time I can get through the storms that are happening here to an internet connection where I can post there’s been over 55 comments.

Second, google is weird about indexing pathfinder 2e videos. You need to search for Pathfinder 2e and not pf2e or any variation if you want to find anything.

Third, abomination vaults is popular enough that it’s getting a hardcover release.

I didn't know this. Interesting (I actually bought that AP too).

I love the AP hardcovers. Anyone have a link?

 

[Retreater]

I didn't know this. Interesting (I actually bought that AP too).

I love the AP hardcovers. Anyone have a link?

Pathfinder Adventure Path: Abomination Vaults (P2): Jacobs, James, Hoskins, Vanessa, Radney-Macfarland, Stephen: 9781640784109: Amazon.com: Books

Pathfinder Adventure Path: Abomination Vaults (P2) [Jacobs, James, Hoskins, Vanessa, Radney-Macfarland, Stephen] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Pathfinder Adventure Path: Abomination Vaults (P2)

www.amazon.com

 

[willrali]

There are games that allow characters to be good at their jobs a sent any optimization...

Pf2 is one of these.

 

[Staffan]

Pf2 is one of these.

Depends on what job you mean. PF2 characters get their core combat numbers up to par as long as they don't actively make bad choices (like not boosting their primary stat or staying away from magic items). The choices you make are more about improved action economy, or allowing you to expand the situations where you get to use your biggest numbers, or improving a less-good number to a good number.

When it comes to skills, however, you do need to focus on a small number of skills or you will fall behind in what is expected of you. Which means that while a low-level character will feel sort-of competent in a moderate number of skills, a high-level character will be great at 1-3 skills and mediocre at the rest.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Depends on what job you mean. PF2 characters get their core combat numbers up to par as long as they don't actively make bad choices (like not boosting their primary stat or staying away from magic items). The choices you make are more about improved action economy, or allowing you to expand the situations where you get to use your biggest numbers, or improving a less-good number to a good number.

What category do you class additional combat or movement options (in regard to the former, I mean additional things you can actually do)?

When it comes to skills, however, you do need to focus on a small number of skills or you will fall behind in what is expected of you. Which means that while a low-level character will feel sort-of competent in a moderate number of skills, a high-level character will be great at 1-3 skills and mediocre at the rest.

Though honesty, for a lot of things mediocre is adequate.

 

[Staffan]

What category do you class additional combat or movement options (in regard to the former, I mean additional things you can actually do)?

Additional combat/movement options generally fall under some sort of action economy and/or using a good number instead of a bad number for a thing. Or widening your competence (rather than sharpening it). Essentially, if your class is about doing X, you won't be able to make many choices to do X+2, but you can certainly get to do X and Y.

What I'm getting at is this: the PF2 character I've been playing the most is an 11th level sorcerer. Pretty much the only choices I've made to make him better at casting has been the no-brainer choice to improve Charisma at levels 5 and 10, so now his Charisma is 20, and he's an Expert at casting, so his spell DC is 29 (10+ proficiency 15 + ability 4), and there's not much more I can do about that.

One choice I have made to actually improve a number has been the general feat Canny Acumen, to improve my Perception proficiency from Trained to Expert. But that's just a catch-up choice – several classes start out with Expert Perception, and many of them get Master at 7th. So that's just a matter of not being as far behind. And now that I hit 11th level, I get Expert Perception from my class, so Canny Acumen no longer helps me and is a prime candidate for retraining once I get some downtime.

Though honesty, for a lot of things mediocre is adequate.

Some people believe so. For me, anything less than success on 8+ for on-level challenges is bad which makes me feel the PF2 skill system is really stingy unless you're a rogue (or investigator). But I've had that discussion on other occasions and it rarely leads anywhere.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Additional combat/movement options generally fall under some sort of action economy and/or using a good number instead of a bad number for a thing. Or widening your competence (rather than sharpening it). Essentially, if your class is about doing X, you won't be able to make many choices to do X+2, but you can certainly get to do X and Y.

Fair enough.

Some people believe so. For me, anything less than success on 8+ for on-level challenges is bad which makes me feel the PF2 skill system is really stingy unless you're a rogue (or investigator). But I've had that discussion on other occasions and it rarely leads anywhere.

I'll tell you the truth; if I'm really wanting consistent competency of that sort a D20 (or D100) based system is not where I'm going to go.

 

[Philip Benz]

I've been folowing this thread, and I can't help but chime in. There's been a lot of interesting discussion about the pros and cons of various classes and the way skills work, but we're a long way from the original post.

I have to say, though, that the title of this thread keeps rubbing me the wrong way. Whether you like the way PF2 works or not, there is really no reason to keep a thread entitled "This Sub-Forum Is Definitely Dead - So What?" at the top of the forum list.

Let's just close this discussion and carry on under some other title. Let this thread drift down the list with no additional posts. Please.

 

[Filthy Lucre]

The system is great, the world is awesome, the marketing is terrible:

Controversy cows creativity:

...To be blunt, there are an increasingly large number of topics I don't feel comfortable engaging with fully anymore on lots of boards, including this one.

A lot of what makes Golarion interesting is the inspiration it pulls from Earth's history and the kind of conflicts it creates, but unfortunately history is messy and nuanced, which makes it a poor choice for discussion when all nuance gets stripped away from conversations by rabid internet tribes.

Hard agree. Big mood.

 

[kayman]

I dont know about the market but i am an old gamer and i can say this .IMHO PF2 is the best fantasy TTRPG that i ever GM . I current having the best experiance of my life as a GM with SoT AP using foundry. It is like a dream . Crunch , Balance , Lore, RP and the PF2 system of foundry. Sorry for my bad english.

 

[Dragonsbane]

I dont know about the market but i am an old gamer and i can say this .IMHO PF2 is the best fantasy TTRPG that i ever GM . I current having the best experiance of my life as a GM with SoT AP using foundry. It is like a dream . Crunch , Balance , Lore, RP and the PF2 system of foundry. Sorry for my bad english.

Same. I started in the 80s, played all D&D editions plus many other systems, and PF2 seems to be the best to DM so far. Clear rules, very balanced, and everything a DM wants to nerf is Uncommon or Rare, thereby allowing DMs to customize their table within the RAW rules heh.

On the forums, I use Reddit and that seems to be very busy for PF2.

 

[miggyG777]

I dont know about the market but i am an old gamer and i can say this .IMHO PF2 is the best fantasy TTRPG that i ever GM . I current having the best experiance of my life as a GM with SoT AP using foundry. It is like a dream . Crunch , Balance , Lore, RP and the PF2 system of foundry. Sorry for my bad english.

I agree, there are many people not actively posting here that enjoy the game. It just works well. There is no need to discuss rules issues and such because almost everything has been laid out clearly in their books if you take the time to research it (which often only takes a few minutes thanks to Archives of Nethys).

Also the Foundry VTT support for it is so good that even if you haven't read the rules it will be easy to learn them during play because all the references are simply one click away.

Imo PF2 with a good Virtual Tabletop is the best experience I ever had playing TTRPGs yet (as a DM and player). I played 5e, Pathfinder 1, DCC, B/X, FATE, SWADE, 5 Torches Deep, BitD and the Cypher System.

If you'd ask me, I'd say PF2e is an RPG that actually benefits quite a lot from a Virtual Tabletop environment and offers you everything that other RPGs try to give you but better, if used in that environment. Intended or not, it seems to be built in such a "programatic" way that it just fits with the tools a VTT offers.

Therefore PF2e takes all the cool things from Old School RPGs and advances it to New School. That's cool.

 

[MNblockhead]

Yeah, I've been tempted to run a PF2e game. I'm already invested in Foundry and envy what the PF2e community has developed in Foundry for that game system. Also, I like having a bit more tactical crunch without all the 3.5 /PF1 complexity. But I'm so invested into 5e stuff, that I'm loathe to run a different fantasy TTRPG. I've been watching what Morrus and folks do with Level Up and Foundry. That would be an easier transition for me since I could still run all the content I have using Level Up.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I've been watching what Morrus and folks do with Level Up and Foundry. That would be an easier transition for me since I could still run all the content I have using Level Up.

I was getting ready to suggest this, but then you beat me to it!

 

[Retreater]

Also the Foundry VTT support for it is so good that even if you haven't read the rules it will be easy to learn them during play because all the references are simply one click away.

I think the experience on Foundry could benefit from a good character creator on there. I know there's a way to integrate it with Pathbuilder for an additional subscription fee, but it still feels a little disjointed.

 

[miggyG777]

I think the experience on Foundry could benefit from a good character creator on there. I know there's a way to integrate it with Pathbuilder for an additional subscription fee, but it still feels a little disjointed.

Without further training I am able to create a character (which I didn't know the rules of) in roughly 10-15 minutes by dragging and dropping Ancestry, Heritage, Class and Background onto the character sheet. Then I calculate all the stats, learn languages additional feats and skills. Next step is to read through what the class feats do and I am usually good to go.
Granted I might have missed some detail here and there but to me that's all I need to build a character and it requires me to actually read the stuff rather than just copy pasting a build and then not knowing what the character is all about.
So it gives me all the info I need in a well organized and quick to access way while still requiring me to understand the basic principles of character building. I like it.

As to answer your question: I would be surprised if there is not some importer for Pathbuilder or some other online tool already available for Foundry, and if it is not there likely will be one that you can use in the near future (seeing what the community develops in terms of add-ons is very promising). Also it isn't too far fetched to assume that the module devs might actually implement a native builder at some point.

 

[kenada]

• Pathbuilder 2e Import
• Hero Lab Online PF2e Import Tool

 

[Dragonsbane]

The Pathbuilder2 app is incredible, and it costs a one-time fee of like 6 bucks to enable export. It is awesome for getting people IG fast.

I think having LevelUp in Foundry would make it much more appealing. After seeing what PF2 does with automation... simply incredible. Not sure LevelUp would have the time to get such seamless integration, as it looks like it took a huge team effort from the PF2 community... might be too big a lift.

 

[kenada]

Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition is available for Foundry.