Pathfinder 2E The Pathfinder Subform Is Definitely Dead - So What?

[!DWolf]

Some thoughts:

First, I don’t think the subforum is dead since by the time I can get through the storms that are happening here to an internet connection where I can post there’s been over 55 comments.

Second, google is weird about indexing pathfinder 2e videos. You need to search for Pathfinder 2e and not pf2e or any variation if you want to find anything.

Third, abomination vaults is popular enough that it’s getting a hardcover release.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I suppose that it is fair. I am not exocist by any means but I love that whiteboard stuff and making character builds (which perhaps makes it ironic that I never talk in the actual builds subforum). I do not think those sort of crunch discussions are entirely divorced from storytelling though - at least for some players. Having fun is, I think, probably a prerequisite for telling good stories. And fun can be harder to come by if your character build does not achieve the level of effectiveness you require.

I pretty much never want to play a character who's bad at their job.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I pretty much never want to play a character who's bad at their job.

Well, I will say that one of the things about PF2e is that you at least have to work at it a bit to do that. There are some bad choice here and there, but just sort of lazily cruising up the middle will often get by in PF2e because of the way the system is wired.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

Generally speaking, comfortable play in all of the DND games seem to exist in a sort of 'compromise' between the goal of depicting a character who exists in the world of the game (I am here to depict a character who might happen to fight dragons, I don't care as much about success and failure in fighting Dragons if the means to do so isn't authentic to the character's concept), and the goal of problem solving through the lens of a fantasy world (I as a player am here to fight and overcome dragons, and my character and the game mechanics they utilize is an interface for doing so-- their goal is my goal.)

Playing a character for whom those things align is generally what makes this marriage possible, it also 'reclaims' the idea of character optimization because it acknowledges the emphasis on problem solving and makes the player responsible for reconciling the potential conflict between character motivation and player motivation that occurs from the game's incentives. PF2e further lubricates that by reducing (relative to previous DND games) the degree of optimization one must do to be competent, by a lot.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Well, I'm going to argue that a fairly limited number of people deliberately want to play a character who is incompetent at their apparent role. They may not focus on competence, but I'm going to doubt "My character is bad at what they do" is an attractive focus to most people, over and above the group dynamic problems.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

Well, I'm going to argue that a fairly limited number of people deliberately want to play a character who is incompetent at their apparent role. They may not focus on competence, but I'm going to doubt "My character is bad at what they do" is an attractive focus to most people, over and above the group dynamic problems.

Ive noticed it tends to be about "my character makes bad choices that reflect their state of mind in the middle of an encounter, making the fight harder for everyone else" more than build incompetence.

 

[JThursby]

Having fun is, I think, probably a prerequisite for telling good stories. And fun can be harder to come by if your character build does not achieve the level of effectiveness you require.

Fair enough, I agree with the sentiment. I find much of the discourse goes beyond just finding what’s effective and devolves into the usual arguments about why certain choices are optimal and anything less is stupidity, that sort of stuff (why ever wield anything other than flickmace, alchemists are bad, complaints about play test classes, etc). This just tends to happen in a text channel based medium like Discord where arguments aren’t delineated like on a forum.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

I pretty much never want to play a character who's bad at their job.

Sometimes I want to roleplay being someone who's less than perfect. That's escapism.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

Sometimes I want to roleplay being someone who's less than perfect. That's escapism.

Out of curiosity, where's your break point on that? Because I don't play perfect characters either, I have a 'good enough is good enough' threshold at like 70%.

 

[Parmandur]

I pretty much never want to play a character who's bad at their job.

There are games that allow characters to be good at their jobs a sent any optimization...