The pendulum swings back: Humans suck once again

[Kobu]

True however all of the monsters at that level are statted in such a way that they take those bonuses into account, thus essentially nullifying them. The +1 from humans though is not something everyone is assumed to have and therefor always gives you an extra 5% chance to avoid things, at levels both high and low.

While it may "feel" minor to you the math irrefutably states that the bonus is just as good at level one as it is at level 30.

And 50 cents for a millionaire still buys him a can of Coke. Not my point. I've stated several times now that I am not disputing the value of a pip itself and doing so would be utterly pointless. I am comparing one pip versus many, or one pip versus bonuses that can not be expressed in pips but only as a part of the larger economy.

Take another look at the MM. The overwhelming majority of monsters have a basic melee attack bonus of between 8 and 12 lower than their AC. A 4 point variance that tends to hold up from 1 to 30.

Variance for a level 1 character's defense is 10 to 15 = 6, or 7 for humans. Variance at level 30 is 27 to ~50 = 23, 24 for humans. It probably isn't an issue like it was in 3rd, but again, see above.

 

[pawsplay]

There are some cosmological theories, developed from the mathematics of quantum mechanics, that posit an infinite number of alternate universes, covering all possibilities. Every possible outcome of every event, everything we can imagine, and uncountable googleplexes of universes more strange and wonderful than we can imagine.

It is awesome to think, that somewhere out there in that infinite sea of realized possibilities there exists a world where Hong's words were actually a useful comment.

But of course, it's equally possible there are a countably infinite number of possibilities... infininite universes, and none of them where that's true.

Where's your money going?

 

[Surgoshan]

The thing is, Kobu, that you're saying "At level 30, it's useful, it's just nowhere near as useful as it was at level one." Everyone else is saying, "Yes it is. It's just as useful! See? Look! Numbers! Proof!" To which you respond "Nuh uh!" You seem fixated on the idea of marginal returns, but the fact is that you're not talking about increasing bonuses against a static background of defenses to attack them with (your can of coke). You're talking about increasing bonuses against a background of scaling defenses.

In short, you're wrong, because at level 30 you're not using 50 cents to buy a can of coke, your extra +1 is an extra $500,000 to get another Rembrandt.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

nope, it is still your can of coke...

but it now costs $500,000 due to inflation...

of course, you can travel to some place where a coke is still 50 cents (level 1 mob) and there it doesn´t matter if you take 500000050 or 5000000 cents with you...

 

[Charwoman Gene]

And 50 cents for a millionaire still buys him a can of Coke. Not my point.

Imagine a millionaire whose taxes are so hi we has to live on $15,000 a year.

 

[silentounce]

Imagine a millionaire whose taxes are so hi we has to live on $15,000 a year.

That's not how taxes work. And he wouldn't "have" to live on $15k, he could always cut into his savings and have more.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Funny thing :

Charwoman Gene is trying to start a PbP 4e game and we got 6 players. 4 out of 6 players have chosen humans! A tiefling and a dragonborn complete the set.

Just saying.

 

[Jack99]

Imagine a millionaire whose taxes are so hi we has to live on $15,000 a year.

Charwoman Gene, meet Astrid Lindgren

In 1976, a scandal arose in Sweden when Lindgren's marginal tax rate was publicized to have risen to 102%. This was to be known as the "Pomperipossa effect" from a story she published in Expressen [1] on March 3, 1976. The publication led to a stormy tax debate. In the parliamentary election later in the same year the Social Democrat government was voted out for the first time in 40 years, and the Lindgren tax debate was one of several controversies that may have contributed to the election result.