The pendulum swings back: Humans suck once again

[Kobu]

Maybe not as much as they did prior to 3rd edition, but humans are markedly "blah" in 4th. Only one +2 to an ability score, an additional class at-will, one more feat that really doesn't make much difference in this edition, and a bonus to defenses that would equate to a mediocre feat in 3rd.

Talk about uninspiring. Dragonborn, dwarves, eladrin, etc. all have a "this makes them cool" factor which is sorely lacking in humans. There's little there that would inspire someone to pick a human over any other race for a particular class. All the other races seem to have better bonuses and just plain more going on than humans.

Well, there is though the matter of the half-elves. Someone at WotC still hates these suckers with a passion (+2 to Con? Really? Was Dex on a smoke break?).

 

[hectorse]

I don't think humans need any more help

 

[keterys]

Are you being sarcastic about humans? As far as I can tell, they're excellent.

I think you're vastly underestimating 'little things' like a +1 to all defenses or a 50% increase in number of at-will powers.

 

[bagginswagon]

hammer wielding half elves

Yeah the half elf stat bump is weird. They're not dwarves. Now you're going to see a bunch of hammer wielding half elves... Dex would have been the right choice.

Regarding humans, they seem identical to 3rd except you can pimp your stat the way you want. I kind of like that. Haven't seen the feats, so I can't comment on how cool an additional one can be. Maybe there will be the must have feat, and all humans will be really good 'dodgers'... (i.e. they'll all make mediocre baseball players).

-wagon

 

[NMcCoy]

Don't forget the +1 to saving throws.

 

[Felon]

Don't forget the +1 to saving throws.

I think that's a racial feat. Humans do get a bonus skill though, IIRC.

Not sure what the OP is going on about. He's not really driving his point home very strongly. What's the basis for saying an extra "doesn't make much difference"? An extra feat is great. OK, some feats are now class abilities, but the human gets an extra at-will as well. No suckage by any means.

 

[Voss]

Interesting. In my eyes, humans and half-elves are two of the mechanically better races. Extra at will and feat is definitely worth a stat bump, and the defense bonuses and extra skill are useful in their own right.

Half-elves, again, an additional power (and that can be chosen according to the character's strength) is great. The stat choices are somewhat odd, but both are very useful.

None of the races strike me as particularly horrible, mechanically.

 

[Ahglock]

I think that's a racial feat. Humans do get a bonus skill though, IIRC.

Not sure what the OP is going on about. He's not really driving his point home very strongly. What's the basis for saying an extra "doesn't make much difference"? An extra feat is great. OK, some feats are now class abilities, but the human gets an extra at-will as well. No suckage by any means.

An extra feat when you get 7 is great, an extra feat when you get like 16 or so is meh. With the default being point buy 2 +2 to stats is a massive benefit. I'd actually have to read all the benefits of all the races to say if its too much or too little, but I'll just say I think uneven stat bonuses especially in a weighted point buy system is very hard to balance.

 

[Kobu]

An extra feat when you get 7 is great, an extra feat when you get like 16 or so is meh. With the default being point buy 2 +2 to stats is a massive benefit. I'd actually have to read all the benefits of all the races to say if its too much or too little, but I'll just say I think uneven stat bonuses especially in a weighted point buy system is very hard to balance.

Exactly. Feats are not as strong and you get a lot more of them. The extra +2 humans don't get could be worth 7 or more points in assigning ability scores.

As for the bonus at-will, exactly what do you think you'll be doing with that? At-wills are pretty much stagnant. There's no improvement for them aside from a small power bump at level 21, and you don't swap them out for improved powers. At the lowest levels a bonus at-will could be nifty for versatility, but does not improve your characters power. By the time you start getting more and improved encounter powers, that bonus at-will will feel paltry and it's doubtful it will get much use.

The defense bonus? Eh. Survivalist characters rarely bring the awesome and the bonus will hardly be felt at later levels.

All in all, the human bonuses will be less and less useful over time. Teleporting 5 squares as a move action each encounter will always be cool.

 

[Dausuul]

Humans sound quite solid to me. You trade power for versatility--an extra at-will gives you more options in combat, which is always nice; and the feat likewise adds to your versatility, e.g., you could use it to get Skill Training and have another trained skill.

And, contrary to Kobu's assertion, the defense bonus should be felt equally at all levels. This isn't 3.X.