The pendulum swings back: Humans suck once again

[Ahglock]

yeah the extra at will seems kind of cool, but not really useful. Lets say you are playing a wizard, um you take magic missile, acid splash, and then what? fire ray or something(don't know what they all are) So lets see i get the ability to shoot you in the face at will, the ability to shoot you in the face at will, oh and the ability to shoot you in the face at will. Yeah woo hoo. Sure I covered one more element, but chances are two will cover what you need if you don't do something lame like take two similar ones.

At least its got some cool power not as much as teleporting 5 squares, but a smidge of cool power.

 

[hong]

Exactly. Feats are not as strong and you get a lot more of them. The extra +2 humans don't get could be worth 7 or more points in assigning ability scores.

As for the bonus at-will, exactly what do you think you'll be doing with that? At-wills are pretty much stagnant. There's no improvement for them aside from a small power bump at level 21, and you don't swap them out for improved powers. At the lowest levels a bonus at-will could be nifty for versatility, but does not improve your characters power. By the time you start getting more and improved encounter powers, that bonus at-will will feel paltry and it's doubtful it will get much use.

The defense bonus? Eh. Survivalist characters rarely bring the awesome and the bonus will hardly be felt at later levels.

All in all, the human bonuses will be less and less useful over time. Teleporting 5 squares as a move action each encounter will always be cool.

So don't play them.

 

[Cadfan]

1. The other way to look at an extra feat is in terms of what it gives you. If it gives you +1 to all saving throws, that's... +1 to all saving throws. It doesn't matter if you get 18 other feats, or 180 other feats. The human has +1 to all saving throws, and everyone else doesn't.

2. The defense bonus matters regardless of level. This is mathematical fact. It can be proven on an abacus.

3. Versatility IS power. Don't think of the bonus at will as a way of increasing damage. Its not. Its a way of increasing things you can do. Make sure to pick at will abilities that are optimized for different types of foes, and you'll be more likely to be well prepared for whatever you meet.

4. First of all, +1 to defenses doesn't count as "survivalist." Its just a nice benefit. That being said, characters with strong defenses "bring the awesome" by continuing to fight whilst their allies are unconscious. Someone on the team usually has to consider these things. Typically its me, because I play the cleric, and everyone knows what happens to the party if the cleric is first to drop.

 

[Cadfan]

yeah the extra at will seems kind of cool, but not really useful. Lets say you are playing a wizard, um you take magic missile, acid splash, and then what? fire ray or something(don't know what they all are) So lets see i get the ability to shoot you in the face at will, the ability to shoot you in the face at will, oh and the ability to shoot you in the face at will. Yeah woo hoo. Sure I covered one more element, but chances are two will cover what you need if you don't do something lame like take two similar ones.

At least its got some cool power not as much as teleporting 5 squares, but a smidge of cool power.

Ah, an easy question!

First you take the ability to shoot someone in the face at will and have it count as a basic ranged attack (magic missile).

Then you take the ability to shoot a group of people in the face at will (scorching burst).

Then you take the ability to shoot a close range group of people in the face at will without provoking opportunity attacks (some sort of Close Burst).

These all have their purpose.

 

[Ahglock]

Ah, an easy question!

First you take the ability to shoot someone in the face at will and have it count as a basic ranged attack (magic missile).

Then you take the ability to shoot a group of people in the face at will (scorching burst).

Then you take the ability to shoot a close range group of people in the face at will without provoking opportunity attacks (some sort of Close Burst).

These all have their purpose.

Very small benefit in my opinion. Its cool, but not nearly as solid as everyone here seems to be making it.

I think the extra skill is up there in good abilities though especially with a extra feat which can go to an extra skill, and I am not even saying humans got the shaft. i just think this is one area where balance can be really hard because of the weighted point buy and uneven stat bonuses. Heck they may have over compensated humans once I get the chance to look at all races, but I really doubt it will end up balanced.

 

[MyISPHatesENWorld]

That extra at-will is really big if you're taking the paragon class multiclassing option. And the extra feat is also really big if you're going to multiclass. Seven feats over the first ten levels as opposed to six makes a big difference if you're burning four of them on multiclassing. It's like having three feats rather than two. And feats really add the finishing touch to a multiclass.

I love the fey step ability, but for making a character play the way I want it to play, human is where it is at.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Having played a human (rogue) for months now, I can assure you that humans are absolutely a solid mechanical choice. They're not quite the no-brainer they used to be, but neither are they weak.

 

[keterys]

In a lot of cases, the +2 to 2 stats you get with a race isn't going to a primary stat, so you're not getting as big a benefit.

For many classes, I'd consider the human at-will invaluable for added breadth - not the cleric who is solidly split on abilities, but on a wizard it's huge for allowing an extra defense target or better AoE mastery. On a fighter it lets you get Cleave (antiminion), Reaping (antisolo), and Tide of Iron (supercool). On a warlord it lets you take the 'let someone else attack' ability and still give yourself some options. On a rogue you can take piercing strike (target Ref instead of AC), sly flourish (Damage!), and deft strike (move 2 before you attack) which all have great purpose.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Humans are fine. It's the half-elves that are disappointing. I like the concept, but it never seems to be as mechanically interesting as other races.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

So don't play them.

I'm not entirely sure humans suck or not, but this is a bad argument.

Hey, wait, you're right! If I close my eyes, all my problems vanish! I'm so glad just not looking at something makes it go away and never return!