5E The Pilosus, a player race with 6 Genders for your 5th edition Sci Fi setting

Psyzhran2357

Villager
I am going to bow out of this conversation at this point. In reference to the original post, you can create any alien you want, you will just have to do some elaborate hand-waving or explaining what caused a 6 sex species to evolve or explain why a species would "genetically" modify itself to require 6 sexes for reproduction.
:):):):) eating coward, may your ignorance lead to the tuin of you and your entire bloodline. May your family be exterminated to the ninth degree for your toxic obstinance.
 
About the newcomers - they had three sexes. There was a third who got involved in the "mechanics" when a couple wanted to reproduce. Their inclusion change it from a form of recreation to procreation and they were honored.

I adapted this (and borrowed from other scifi) with my own runs at tri-genders by having the third gender be the one who carried the child. Again, their inclusion move the activity from recreation to procreation and so they became part of the family. In my culture, the third gender tended to remain as caregiver until the child hit puberty. Then , sometime, they may move on if they have not spawned other kiddies in that family.

But there are a lot of ways i have seen tri-genders work.

Also, Enemy Mine used a solo gender alien.

So, really, to me, this concept for alien or fantasy species well pre-dates whatever modern cultural slants folks may want to paint it as.

Especially with examples of gender swapping occuring in real world animals.
The Newcomers were a genetically engineered slave race so they are not a really good example as for all we know the requirement of a third gender was nothing more than an engineered change made to control them as slaves, ie only those worthy as good slaves were allowed to reproduce.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Moderator
Staff member
:):):):) eating coward, may your ignorance lead to the tuin of you and your entire bloodline. May your family be exterminated to the ninth degree for your toxic obstinance.
Triggering the profanity filter? Personal insults? Calling for ”extermination”? This is not the kind of post we like to see here. Do not post in this thread again, and reacquaint yourself with ENWorld’s terms of service. Repeating this kind of behavior will get you booted quite quickly.
 

5ekyu

Adventurer
The Newcomers were a genetically engineered slave race so they are not a really good example as for all we know the requirement of a third gender was nothing more than an engineered change made to control them as slaves, ie only those worthy as good slaves were allowed to reproduce.
The newcomers were brought up by someone else. I just clarified their cycle when it was not correctly represented. But in the discussion of aliens etc, there are so many expressions of the humanoids as all being genetically engineered or manipulated evolution etc as to make the distinction a pretty much trivial one.

I am sure it was before Star Teek but even there in TOS the idea that the humanoid species are seeded and altered by "preservers" was in the series. It was in the original Traveller RPG which was one of the first scyfy RPGs out there.

So, not sure how an alien race not bring "naturally occurring somehow makes it an example thsts problematic gor discussion of scyfy aliens in rpg!!
 

Dannyalcatraz

Moderator
Staff member
...in TOS the idea that the humanoid species are seeded and altered by "preservers" was in the series.
I don’t remember it in TOS, but seeding was definitely part of an episode in ST:TNG.
 

seebs

Explorer
Nope, not playing this game. You label me for not agreeing with you. That is offensive.
I didn't seee this labelling. The substantive points remain; not all humans can be unambiguously described as "male" or "female" reproductively, even among people who successfully reproduce. Biology has a lot of messy edge cases. You can talk about two distinct sexes, but it's a simplification of the actual stuff biology does.

Humans tend fairly strongly to rough dimorphism between "provides small gametes" and "provides large gametes", and the large-gamete people tend to be the ones who have the wombs, nearly all the time. But not quite 100% of the time. In other species, it's sometimes more complicated. Are flowering plants male or female? No, they're not. Some species have something roughly mapping onto "male" and "female" but an individual organism can switch.

There is a popular tendency to start with the simplified versions of biology we use to introduce the concepts, and declare that since we have this strong instinctive sense that our species comes in two types and we care which type people are, that must actually be how it works. There's also a popular tendency among cats to assume that, since they have a strong instinctive sense that small moving things need to be pounced on, the dots from laser pointers are actually food. These assumptions are exactly equally well supported. Reality is not as simple as "all small moving things are food", and it is not as simple as "all mammals are reproductively male, or female, always one or the other, never neither or both".
 
I don’t remember it in TOS, but seeding was definitely part of an episode in ST:TNG.
And yet it was contradicted on the series finale of ST:TNG.

My point was arguing that multiple sexes makes sense and using engineered races as an example is incongruent. The Newcomers were a modified slave race, we don't know how much of them is natural and how much was done to them to make them more useful or controllable slaves.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
And yet it was contradicted on the series finale of ST:TNG.
You can no-prize that one. In "All Good Things..." the development of life on Earth is threatened by a spacial anomaly. We can say that is development of life based upon the seeding of the Progenitors from "The Chase".
 
It seems highly unlikely that a species would evolve in such a way that they would require three or more parents to reproduce, barring highly specific selective pressure.

A scientific paper analyzed why only two sexes evolved using mathematical models. The models showed that three-sexed systems are less responsive to selection pressure than two-sexed systems, and have more genetic variability after the same amount of time under that pressure.

In order for three-sexed organisms to compete, they would have to evolve in conditions that change too rapidly for their slower evolution to matter and which frequently force them into population bottlenecks. The advantage of three copies of the genome from three parents means that inbreeding depression would be much less of a problem.

The scifi novel Silent Runners used a tri-sexual model for its alien race. The hydrans in the Star Trek EU appear to reproduce this way.




Species that reproduce through sexual parasitism (e.g. hybridogenesis, gynogenesis, androgenesis) may be said to possess multiple sexes, but this is on the demographic level rather than the individual level. Obligate sexual parasitism has been observed in amphibians, reptiles, fish and insects. It may occur in other species as well, but we wouldn't be able to tell without genetic sequencing.




This is a completely different concept from a species which is isogamous. In fungi, some algae and some microorganisms, there are no males and females because they produce identical homogeneous gametes (or no gametes at all). Sexual compatibility is determined by mating types (as the name implies, operate on the logical reverse of blood types), of which there may be anywhere from two to many thousands. Although such organisms lack male or female sexes, they still only require two parents to reproduce.

Although limited to non-animal life on Earth, there's no reason why there can't be isogamous megafauna in a fictional setting. I can't actually name any examples except for this deviantart gallery.




Even within organisms limited to male and female sexes, there is still a fair potential for variety. According to ScienceDirect, "There are six major sexual systems that involve hermaphroditism: simultaneous hermaphroditism with obligate selfing; simultaneous hermaphroditism with outcrossing in both roles; sequential hermaphroditism, androdioecy, gynodioecy and trioecy."

Even within a species limited to "males" and "females", there's no reason why there couldn't be multiple biological castes limited to certain genders. E.g., a species might consist of seven castes: five males, one female and one sterile/sexless.

E.g. the Dirdir from the Jack Vance novel of the same name: they have 12 types of "males" and 14 types of "females." No details are given.

Not to mention the diversity of sex-determination systems. E.g., a species could spawn males asexually and females sexually.




Or, I don't know, a species could reproduce in some alien fashion where the females are born pregnant and when the male copulates with the female he actually inseminates the offspring in her womb. (I got the idea by looking at the telescoping generations of aphids, then switched the generations of females but not the males!)

Or an animal species could alternate generations exactly like plants!

I don't think scifi has scratched the surface of our imaginations yet.
 
You can no-prize that one. In "All Good Things..." the development of life on Earth is threatened by a spacial anomaly. We can say that is development of life based upon the seeding of the Progenitors from "The Chase".
We could since it is just Star Trek and we can ignore the absurd idea that the seeding by the Projenitors was barely alive amino acids that yet somehow evolved to develop humanoid life that look 95% like the Projenitor race.

But then we are talking about Star Trek.
 

dwayne

Explorer
I can't wait to finish this race and post the final work. I have to say this one race has more done with it than some of the others, due to the fact of the interaction of the different genders. But keep in mind i made this to have those 6 genders for a reason, and only I know why and none of you have even gotten close to it. But how can you your caught up in facts and real world science when this is beyond the known facts and sciences. But please continue to poke at each other and call names and fight over a made up race and situation, because in the end it does not matter.
 
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jayoungr

Adventurer
I don’t remember it in TOS, but seeding was definitely part of an episode in ST:TNG.
Iirc it was the ssrgon body stealing episode and a discussion of Vulcan history *or* the Kirok and the asteroid one, or both.
I re-watched TOS fairly recently. I don't remember it being in "Return to Tomorrow" (the Sargon body-stealing episode), but it was definitely in "The Paradise Syndrome" (the Kirok and the asteroid one).
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Man this thread is a wild ride. I even temporarily viewed someone’s posts who I’d blocked just to see the whole thing.

Just...wild as hell.
 

Gradine

Archivist
Ah yes, this was a fun trip down memory road. My first experience having my existence denied post-transition. Certainly not my last, though!

It's always disappointing to see who comes out of the woodworks in threads like these to share their bad takes.

It's also disappointing that the thing that kicked this whole thread off was far more interesting in theory than in execution.
 

dwayne

Explorer
Ah yes, this was a fun trip down memory road. My first experience having my existence denied post-transition. Certainly not my last, though!

It's always disappointing to see who comes out of the woodworks in threads like these to share their bad takes.

It's also disappointing that the thing that kicked this whole thread off was far more interesting in theory than in execution.
I have added much more information on the race since and still finishing up some finer points and trying to put in context the reason as to how they became a multi-gendered species. Had lots of fun reading peoples input, but this was just a fictional race and facts are only fact till disproved. I might post the finished one within a few weeks or so and see what fires it starts.
 

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